protectionist b.s.
in [Toyota]
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From: Mike Hunter on 5 Feb 2010 14:09 What you say seldom matches reality, "dr_jeff." ;) "dr_jeff" <utz(a)msu.edu> wrote in message news:39mdnUsss90x5PbWnZ2dnUVZ_ridnZ2d(a)giganews.com... > Mike Hunter wrote: >> You are free to believe whatever you choose, but WHY do you want to >> believe that "dr_jeff," when vans are as tall, or taller than some SUVs? >> But then again you always seem to believe whatever the politicians, >> bureaucrats and conspiracy theorists want you to believe > > The NHTSA has actually studied the actual crashes, so I believe they know > more about traffic crashes than you or I, particularly after you retired > from the engineering side of the business. > >> The fact is during my many years working in vehicle design it was quite >> apparent that it is only a perception, but not a fact, that a vehicle a >> foot taller will more easily rollover, when actually the center of >> gravity of any vehicle is just a bit above the center line of the drive >> train. > > Depends on the vehicle and how it is loaded. > >> The truth is EVERY vehicle has a tendency to fall back on it wheels, >> before it will roll over, even when tipped up to over 45%, because most >> of its weight is in the bottom 20% of the vehicle. > > Yet, certain vehicles, like SUVs roll over more often than cars. > >> Watch what happens why the run at high speed around city corners, the >> BLACK CIA SUVs mealy spin out, or spin circles. When DO the want them >> to roll they are first run up a ramp hidden behind another vehicle. >> >> When they want a tractor-trail to roll it ALWAYS must be one that is >> empty and the tire pressure is lowered to just a few pounds PSI. > > Yeah. That's why they have the signs on roads that say tractor trailers > have to slow down. And, why I see news reports of tractor trailers tipped > over, and the trailers nearly full (I say nearly, because I see the > contents spilled). > > What you say doesn't match reality. > > Jeff > >> "dr_jeff" <utz(a)msu.edu> wrote in message >> news:_8GdnQZ37IVozvbWnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d(a)giganews.com... >>> Mike Hunter wrote: >>>> The irony is taller vehicles do not have any more tendency to rollover >>>> than any other. >>> According to the NHTSA, "We generally find that sport utility vehicles >>> (SUVs) were more likely to have rolled over than pickups, which in turn >>> were more likely to roll over than either vans or passenger cars." >>> >>> From publication number: 810741 here: >>> http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Cats/listpublications.aspx?Id=C&ShowBy=DocType >>> >>> Or you can read the PDF yourself here: >>> javascript:ShowFile('../Pubs/810741.PDF') >>> >>>> The perception is that a vehicle a foot taller will more >>>> easily rollover when actually the center of gravity of any vehicle is >>>> just a bit above the center line of the drive train. Wheel base has >>>> a far greater effect on a vehicles ability to rollover. The truth is >>>> EVERY vehicle has a tendency to fall back on it wheels, even when >>>> tipped up to over 45%, because most of its weight is in the bottom 20% >>>> of the vehicle. In movies, to get a vehicle to roll over, the FX guys >>>> must run one side up a five foot high ramp >>>> >>>> If height actually attributed to rollovers, one should see box trucks >>>> rolled over every day. >>>> >>>> In the end it proved that defective Firestone tires on the vehicles was >>>> the cause and not the body design. >>>> >>>> The environuts jumped at the opportunity to scare buyer away from the >>>> larger, safer vehicles that so many families were choosing to buy at >>>> the time. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "E. Meyer" <e.p.meyer(a)verizon.net> wrote in message >>>> news:C7906C39.17000%e.p.meyer(a)verizon.net... >>>>> On 2/3/10 7:28 PM, in article >>>>> geWdnbQpzPojv_fWnZ2dnUVZ_rudnZ2d(a)giganews.com, >>>>> "dbu''" <nospam(a)nobama.com.invalid> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> In article <Xns9D14C85F6C360tegger(a)208.90.168.18>, >>>>>> Tegger <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> "tww1491" <twaugh5(a)cox.net> wrote in >>>>>>> news:Fooan.26826$fu3.6796(a)newsfe12.iad: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "jim beam" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message >>>>>>>> news:SYadnYVv5qcHDvTWnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... >>>>>>>>> if toyota needs to learn a lesson from this fiasco, it's that they >>>>>>>>> need to show up in washington and hand over their lobbying cash >>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>> detroit does, not be politically naive and simply rely on selling >>>>>>>>> superior product. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In the local paper a couple days ago, a 79 year old women crashed >>>>>>>> into >>>>>>>> a veterinarian's office claiming that the gas pedal on her new >>>>>>>> Toyota >>>>>>>> stuck. The dealer found nothing wrong with the car. With that story >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> the paper were reports of drivers complaining to the local Toyota >>>>>>>> dealer that they received speeding tickets because of "stuck" >>>>>>>> pedals. >>>>>>>> And so it has begun. And yet much more to come. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Keep in mind that there have been exactly twelve (12) confirmed >>>>>>> incidents >>>>>>> of actual stuck gas pedals on Toyotas since October. Worldwide. Over >>>>>>> 2.3 >>>>>>> million vehicles. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That's 0.00052%, in case anybody's counting. >>>>>> That is well within any reasonable sample of defects for the NASA >>>>>> space >>>>>> program parts!!! >>>>>> >>>>>> THIS has been wildly overblown. BUT....Toyota has been up to the >>>>>> challenge. They will have it fixed. The Toyota vehicles will be >>>>>> better >>>>>> than the space shuttle after all is said and done. >>>>> I remember a month or two after the overturning Ford Explorer fiasco >>>>> hit the >>>>> press there was suddenly an epidemic of SUVs of all makes and models >>>>> flipping over on their sides at every intersection. Before all the >>>>> publicity, I don't remember ever seeing an overturned SUV. Strange >>>>> things >>>>> happen when people start thinking they can cash in. >>>>> >>
From: Mike Hunter on 5 Feb 2010 14:11 (Cross postings deleted, automatically) What is the name of that river in Egypt? ;) "jim beam" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message news:upCdnWqpHesIHvbWnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... > On 02/04/2010 07:51 AM, Mike Hunter wrote: >> According to todays Tribune Newspapers, the Chairman of the House >> Oversight >> Committee is stating Toyota will be asked about runaways problems with >> the >> Tacoma truck. >> >> The NHTSA has received over 100 complaints about sudden uncontrolled >> accelerations problem on the Tacoma, their truck that does NOT use the >> same >> pedal assembly as the other recalled Toyotas. >> >> The article also refers to Japans Transport Ministry releasing that their >> have been numerous complaints about "braking problems" with NEW >> generation >> Prius. Toyota admits they are addressing braking problems in previous >> Prius models but they are "unaware" of problems in the NEW generation >> Prius. >> >> The ever growing issue over sudden uncontrolled acceleration in most >> every >> type of Toyota vehicle is having a sensitizing effect on consumers around >> the world and Toyotas confusing responses are not helping the situation. >> Curious ah? > > dude, at this stage it's mob hysteria. fact is, frod have defects that > have killed thousands of americans. but rather than spend money on proper > design and execution, they instead show up in d.c. with lobbyists and > spend hundreds of millions of dollars making "contributions" to [which is > MUCH cheaper b.t.w.] our representatives so they can stay off the > political/legal radar screen. > > toyota, naively, just make great cars under the false impression that > they're selling into a meritocracy that plays fair. and they are so > wrong. but toyota, inadvertently, are shining the harsh light of reality > on the utter debasement of american values with this bullshit from > politicians that are prepared to take the dollar and turn a blind eye to > manslaughter rather than stand up for the lives and values of citizens > that elected them. it's an utter disgrace. > > > >> >> "Tegger"<invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in message >> news:Xns9D148F020FD93tegger(a)208.90.168.18... >>> jim beam<me(a)privacy.net> wrote in >>> news:SYadnYVv5qcHDvTWnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net: >>> >>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100203/ts_alt_afp/japanusautocompanyrecal >>>> ltoyota_20100203001517 >>>> >>>> "US chides Toyota over recall" >>>> >>>> this is back-door protectionist political bullshit. >>>> >>>> fact: ford, bmw, and others have all had throttle sensor problems, and >>>> in much greater numbers than toyota. >>>> >>>> fact: the media has all but ignored it. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Currently Toyota accounts for 41% of all unintended acceleration >>> incidents. >>> Ford accounts for 28%. Both Toyota and Ford have about a 16% market >>> share >>> apiece. >>> >>> GM and Chrysler have UA numbers smaller than their market shares. I >>> don't >>> know the exact number. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tegger >>> >> >> >
From: Mike Hunter on 5 Feb 2010 14:16 (Cross postings deleted, automatically) It appears that Toyotas share numbers is going to change ;) "Tegger" <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in message news:Xns9D16D1839764tegger(a)208.90.168.18... > jr92 <coachrose13(a)hotmail.com> wrote in > news:28a1db53-7537-473d-8873-d2afacbd189a(a)k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com: > >> On Feb 3, 10:17 am, jim beam <m...(a)privacy.net> wrote: >>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100203/ts_alt_afp/japanusautocompanyrec. >>> .. >>> >>> "US chides Toyota over recall" >>> >>> this is back-door protectionist political bullshit. >> >> >> >> >> You mean, like the Japanese version of protectionism that, in 2008, >> exported over 2 million vechicles to the US, while at the same time, >> only allowing 12 thousand American nameplates to be imported >> there?????? > > > > So what? Maybe the Japs simply don't like our cars. Ever thought of that? > If WE won't buy them, why would THEY? > > There's a reason Toyota has the market share they do, in spite of all the > hatred directed against them from certain quarters. > > > > -- > Tegger >
From: Tegger on 5 Feb 2010 15:33 "Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2(a)lycos,com> wrote in news:4b6c6d10$0$6367$ce5e7886(a)news-radius.ptd.net: > (Cross postings deleted, automatically) And why, pray tell? -- Tegger
From: Dave D on 6 Feb 2010 02:30
"Tegger" <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in message news:Xns9D16141D6B7B6tegger(a)208.90.168.18... > jr92 <coachrose13(a)hotmail.com> wrote in > news:a47b30e1-88d4-48d0-b605-2ca578017e50(a)m31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com: >> ///snipped/// >> That does not mean that Toyota does not have problems with sticking >> accelerators. > > > > What about Ford? They account for 28% of SUA incidents. How come nobody's > up in arms about that? I would redirect your attention to the overblown Explorer fiasco. Seems like there were quite a few up in arms about that. Could it possibly be that of the 28% of SUA incidents you attribute to Ford that only a miniscule part were mechanical failures? Just asking. What I have noticed is this - there is a certain fraction of the population (any population) that is overjoyed to see one of the "Big Dogs" get whipped. I would bet that there was a similar reaction to Ford's problems, to GM's misfortunes, and if Ferrari or Rolls-Royce suffered a similar disaster, there would be a collection of "experts" that would be delighted and would go out of their way to denigrate the marque.....I guess its just human nature to rejoice when the high and mighty are fallen. DaveD |