protectionist b.s.
in [Toyota]
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From: Dave D on 9 Feb 2010 03:38 "Tegger" <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in message news:Xns9D196A377E488tegger(a)208.90.168.18... > Clive <Clive(a)yewbank.demon.co.uk> wrote in > news:KG+Jm5b1ICcLFwWA(a)yewbank.demon.co.uk: > I dunno. But if so, then why aren't the domestics making cars which fit > that requirement? > > Look at the Japs strenuous efforts to make care we will buy. We certainly > don't do the same for them. The original Honda Odyssey did not sell well. > Why? It was too small. Honda made the Odyssey bigger, and buyers finally > got interested. > > The Japanese try to find out why a particular vehicle isn't selling well > here, and change the car so it will sell well. Do we do that for them? No. > > Toyota is doing better tham GM simply because it's a better-run company > with smarter management. > > > > -- > Tegger Spot on Tegger!!! My concern now is that Government Motors will be run into the ground if the Bureaucrats don't let people who know how run the company. If they won't, then I greatly fear GMs demise. The guvmint doesn't have a great track record managing anything. DaveD
From: Mike Hunter on 9 Feb 2010 10:10 (Cross posting deleted, automatically) His comment was just one more YABUT excuse to deflect from the fact Toyota has been ordered to recall 5.4 MILLION unsafe vehicles all around the world. LOL "jim beam" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message news:b7udnRf6_8bLR-3WnZ2dnUVZ_oJi4p2d(a)speakeasy.net... > On 02/07/2010 10:13 PM, jr92 wrote: >> On Feb 7, 9:16?am, jim beam<m...(a)privacy.net> wrote: >>> On 02/06/2010 11:37 PM, jr92 wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Feb 5, 1:17 am, Tegger<inva...(a)invalid.inv> ?wrote: >>>>> jr92<coachros...(a)hotmail.com> ?wrote >>>>> innews:28a1db53-7537-473d-8873-d2afacbd189a(a)k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com: >>> >>>>>> On Feb 3, 10:17 am, jim beam<m...(a)privacy.net> ?wrote: >>>>>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100203/ts_alt_afp/japanusautocompanyrec. >>>>>>> .. >>> >>>>>>> "US chides Toyota over recall" >>> >>>>>>> this is back-door protectionist political bullshit. >>> >>>>>> You mean, like the Japanese version of protectionism that, in 2008, >>>>>> exported over 2 million vechicles to the US, while at the same time, >>>>>> only allowing 12 thousand American nameplates to be imported >>>>>> there?????? >>> >>>>> So what? Maybe the Japs simply don't like our cars. Ever thought of >>>>> that? >>>>> If WE won't buy them, why would THEY? >>> >>>> If that is the case, why not let the free market decide??????????????? >>> >>>> If you are right, the Japanese would NOT buy US products. >>> >>>> But, of course, they MIGHT buy US if they HAD THE CHANCE TO DO SO IN >>>> THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>> >>>> The GOVERNMENT restricts the number of US imports sold in Japan. >>> >>>> If there were "TRUE FREE TRADE", and the Japanese still didn't buy >>>> from the USA, you might have a point. >>> >>>> But, being they are not allowed to so IN THE FIRST PLACE, you simply >>>> make a moot point/ >>> >>>> Why not give the Japanese the CHOICE TO REJECT US >>>> NAMEPLATES????????????????? >>> >>>> Maybe because the Japanese government fears the public might not do >>>> so??????? >>> >>> that doesn't explain why japanese vehicles sell so well in all the other >>> markets where u.s. manufacturers are free to compete. >>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry#By_Manufacturer >>> >>> note that >>> >>> 1. vw outsells gm globally for cars. >> >> >>> >> >> >> Might be true today. Tomorrow might be different. >> >> >> >> The market is very fluid at this point, and who " out sells who" >> changes almost monthly. >> >> >> >> Fact of the matter is, wether they are second, first, or third in >> total sales, GM sell MILLIONS of vehicles world wide, in markets where >> they ARE ALLOWED TO COMPETE!!!!!! >> >> >> >> I've said it a thousand times before, but here it goes again: >> >> >> >> If you sell MILLIONS OF ANYTHING, it ain't junk. >> >> >> >> Junk doesn't sell, not by the millions. >> >> >> >> So, getting back to my original point, GM sell Millions of cars and >> trucks world-wide, but only 12000 in Japan. >> >> >> >> Sounds to me Japan is using very unfair trade practices, or >> "protectionism". >> >> >> >> >> >>> 2. gm's non-domestic product line includes opel, a range of cheap, >>> small, efficient vehicles with global appeal that sell well in other >>> markets [but they don't make them here]. ?they have a real hard time >>> selling their domestic product line overseas and they'd be sunk if they >>> were so trying. >>> >> >> >> >> >> Yet, they cant build Buicks fast enough for China. >> >> >> >> Selling 'em by the millions. >> >> >> >> And they are hardly either, "non-domestic, nor cheap, small efficient >> vehicles" >> >> >> >> >> >>> fact is, the japanese make better, more reliable vehicles that sell well >>> in every market in the world. ?u.s. domestic vehicles have very limited >>> appeal outside domestic markets so this "protectionist" argument doesn't >>> wash.. >>> >> >>> >> >> Fact is, you are wrong, once again. Any way you can objectively >> compare US to Japan clearly shows American nameplates are as good as, >> or better than, what Japan has to offer. Check the numbers. >> >> >> As far as biased-typed comparisons, I guess you'll have to stick to >> the likes of Consumer Reports or the mass media (but wait, they are >> beginning to hammer at the Toyotas like they did Gm in the 80's and >> 90's.) >> >> >> I guess we'll have to go to newsgroups like this and listen to the >> likes of you whine about how unfair the media is treating Japanese >> vehicles. >> >> >> Hell , even Jim Higgins has posted negative things about Toyotas >> lately. >> >> >> If that ain't a sigh they are in trouble, I don't know what is! >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>>>> There's a reason Toyota has the market share they do, in spite of all >>>>> the >>>>> hatred directed against them from certain quarters. >>> >> >> >> >> As does GM. >> >> >> >> Don't forget, they haven't left the planet yet. They are still selling >> millions of cars and trucks. >> >> >> Actually, its pretty amazing how they still sell so many vehicles >> considering the things they have had to over come in the past 30 >> years. >> >> >> >> Just more evidence they must make a pretty damned good product, >> >> >> >>>>> -- >>>>> Tegger- Hide quoted text - >>> >>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >>> >>> - Show quoted text - >> > > > i bow to tegger on this - he's got your number.
From: Mike Hunter on 9 Feb 2010 10:10 (Cross posting deleted, automatically) His comment was just one more YABUT excuse to deflect from the fact Toyota has been ordered to recall 5.4 MILLION unsafe vehicles all around the world. LOL "jim beam" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message news:b7udnRb6_8blR-3WnZ2dnUVZ_oL_fwAA(a)speakeasy.net... > On 02/08/2010 07:00 AM, Tegger wrote: >> jr92<coachrose13(a)hotmail.com> wrote in >> news:5d78097d-2d68-4fb9-8829-e1e2b7fda354(a)z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com: >> >>> On Feb 7, 11:08?am, Clive<Cl...(a)yewbank.demon.co.uk> wrote: >>>> In message >>>> <c37f1896-29f5-406f-afd0-bca4507d2...(a)f15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>, >>>> jr92<coachros...(a)hotmail.com> writes>The GOVERNMENT restricts the >>>> number >>> of US imports sold in Japan. >>>> >>>>> If there were "TRUE FREE TRADE", and the Japanese still didn't buy >>>> >from the USA, you might have a point. >>>> >>>> I believe there really is free trade, it's just that so many makes of >>>> car don't conform to the tight Japanese specification. >>> >>> >>> >>> No, the Japanese Government restricts the number of US cars allowed to >>> be sold in the US. >> >> >> >> It does not. Not since 1978. >> >> >>> >>> >>> No free trade at all is allowed. >> >> >> >> Have you bothered to do /any/ reading about this? American makers have >> simply failed to address the needs and desires of the Japanese market. >> >> >> <http://www.jama.org/library/studies100297.htm> >> >> Excerpt: >> "Compounding these problems, the report said, was the fact that the Big >> Three had never built a car under 2,000-cc engine displacement - the >> segment that at the time accounted for more than 80% of the entire market >> (18) - nor had they designed any cars for Japan with the steering wheel >> on >> the right-hand side.(19) Moreover, prices of U.S.- made cars "tend[ed] to >> be higher by approximately 20% on average than those of comparable >> Japanese-made cars," the report said, despite the fact that Japan had >> completely eliminated auto tariffs in 1978.(20)" >> >> >> > > well said.
From: Mike Hunter on 9 Feb 2010 10:11 (Cross posting deleted, automatically) His comment was just one more YABUT excuse to deflect from the fact Toyota has been ordered to recall 5.4 MILLION unsafe vehicles all around the world. LOL "Dave D" <dtdodson(a)acsalaska.net> wrote in message news:4b711efd$1(a)news.acsalaska.net... > > "Tegger" <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in message > news:Xns9D196A377E488tegger(a)208.90.168.18... >> Clive <Clive(a)yewbank.demon.co.uk> wrote in >> news:KG+Jm5b1ICcLFwWA(a)yewbank.demon.co.uk: >> I dunno. But if so, then why aren't the domestics making cars which fit >> that requirement? >> >> Look at the Japs strenuous efforts to make care we will buy. We certainly >> don't do the same for them. The original Honda Odyssey did not sell well. >> Why? It was too small. Honda made the Odyssey bigger, and buyers finally >> got interested. >> >> The Japanese try to find out why a particular vehicle isn't selling well >> here, and change the car so it will sell well. Do we do that for them? >> No. >> >> Toyota is doing better tham GM simply because it's a better-run company >> with smarter management. >> >> >> >> -- >> Tegger > Spot on Tegger!!! My concern now is that Government Motors will be run > into the ground if the Bureaucrats don't let people who know how run the > company. If they won't, then I greatly fear GMs demise. The guvmint > doesn't have a great track record managing anything. > > DaveD >
From: jim beam on 9 Feb 2010 22:35
On 02/09/2010 07:10 AM, Mike Hunter wrote: > (Cross posting deleted, automatically) except that it's not. and nor should it be. and don't top post. > > His comment was just one more YABUT excuse to deflect from the fact Toyota > has been ordered to recall 5.4 MILLION unsafe vehicles all around the world. > LOL no, toyota have /not/ "been ordered", they have done a voluntary recall. see frod for details of how to avoid compulsory recalls. > > "jim beam"<me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message > news:b7udnRf6_8bLR-3WnZ2dnUVZ_oJi4p2d(a)speakeasy.net... >> On 02/07/2010 10:13 PM, jr92 wrote: >>> On Feb 7, 9:16?am, jim beam<m...(a)privacy.net> wrote: >>>> On 02/06/2010 11:37 PM, jr92 wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Feb 5, 1:17 am, Tegger<inva...(a)invalid.inv> ?wrote: >>>>>> jr92<coachros...(a)hotmail.com> ?wrote >>>>>> innews:28a1db53-7537-473d-8873-d2afacbd189a(a)k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com: >>>> >>>>>>> On Feb 3, 10:17 am, jim beam<m...(a)privacy.net> ?wrote: >>>>>>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100203/ts_alt_afp/japanusautocompanyrec. >>>>>>>> .. >>>> >>>>>>>> "US chides Toyota over recall" >>>> >>>>>>>> this is back-door protectionist political bullshit. >>>> >>>>>>> You mean, like the Japanese version of protectionism that, in 2008, >>>>>>> exported over 2 million vechicles to the US, while at the same time, >>>>>>> only allowing 12 thousand American nameplates to be imported >>>>>>> there?????? >>>> >>>>>> So what? Maybe the Japs simply don't like our cars. Ever thought of >>>>>> that? >>>>>> If WE won't buy them, why would THEY? >>>> >>>>> If that is the case, why not let the free market decide??????????????? >>>> >>>>> If you are right, the Japanese would NOT buy US products. >>>> >>>>> But, of course, they MIGHT buy US if they HAD THE CHANCE TO DO SO IN >>>>> THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>>> >>>>> The GOVERNMENT restricts the number of US imports sold in Japan. >>>> >>>>> If there were "TRUE FREE TRADE", and the Japanese still didn't buy >>>>> from the USA, you might have a point. >>>> >>>>> But, being they are not allowed to so IN THE FIRST PLACE, you simply >>>>> make a moot point/ >>>> >>>>> Why not give the Japanese the CHOICE TO REJECT US >>>>> NAMEPLATES????????????????? >>>> >>>>> Maybe because the Japanese government fears the public might not do >>>>> so??????? >>>> >>>> that doesn't explain why japanese vehicles sell so well in all the other >>>> markets where u.s. manufacturers are free to compete. >>>> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry#By_Manufacturer >>>> >>>> note that >>>> >>>> 1. vw outsells gm globally for cars. >>> >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> Might be true today. Tomorrow might be different. >>> >>> >>> >>> The market is very fluid at this point, and who " out sells who" >>> changes almost monthly. >>> >>> >>> >>> Fact of the matter is, wether they are second, first, or third in >>> total sales, GM sell MILLIONS of vehicles world wide, in markets where >>> they ARE ALLOWED TO COMPETE!!!!!! >>> >>> >>> >>> I've said it a thousand times before, but here it goes again: >>> >>> >>> >>> If you sell MILLIONS OF ANYTHING, it ain't junk. >>> >>> >>> >>> Junk doesn't sell, not by the millions. >>> >>> >>> >>> So, getting back to my original point, GM sell Millions of cars and >>> trucks world-wide, but only 12000 in Japan. >>> >>> >>> >>> Sounds to me Japan is using very unfair trade practices, or >>> "protectionism". >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> 2. gm's non-domestic product line includes opel, a range of cheap, >>>> small, efficient vehicles with global appeal that sell well in other >>>> markets [but they don't make them here]. ?they have a real hard time >>>> selling their domestic product line overseas and they'd be sunk if they >>>> were so trying. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Yet, they cant build Buicks fast enough for China. >>> >>> >>> >>> Selling 'em by the millions. >>> >>> >>> >>> And they are hardly either, "non-domestic, nor cheap, small efficient >>> vehicles" >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> fact is, the japanese make better, more reliable vehicles that sell well >>>> in every market in the world. ?u.s. domestic vehicles have very limited >>>> appeal outside domestic markets so this "protectionist" argument doesn't >>>> wash.. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>> Fact is, you are wrong, once again. Any way you can objectively >>> compare US to Japan clearly shows American nameplates are as good as, >>> or better than, what Japan has to offer. Check the numbers. >>> >>> >>> As far as biased-typed comparisons, I guess you'll have to stick to >>> the likes of Consumer Reports or the mass media (but wait, they are >>> beginning to hammer at the Toyotas like they did Gm in the 80's and >>> 90's.) >>> >>> >>> I guess we'll have to go to newsgroups like this and listen to the >>> likes of you whine about how unfair the media is treating Japanese >>> vehicles. >>> >>> >>> Hell , even Jim Higgins has posted negative things about Toyotas >>> lately. >>> >>> >>> If that ain't a sigh they are in trouble, I don't know what is! >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> There's a reason Toyota has the market share they do, in spite of all >>>>>> the >>>>>> hatred directed against them from certain quarters. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> As does GM. >>> >>> >>> >>> Don't forget, they haven't left the planet yet. They are still selling >>> millions of cars and trucks. >>> >>> >>> Actually, its pretty amazing how they still sell so many vehicles >>> considering the things they have had to over come in the past 30 >>> years. >>> >>> >>> >>> Just more evidence they must make a pretty damned good product, >>> >>> >>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Tegger- Hide quoted text - >>>> >>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >>>> >>>> - Show quoted text - >>> >> >> >> i bow to tegger on this - he's got your number. > > |