protectionist b.s.
in [Toyota]
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From: Mike Hunter on 4 Feb 2010 19:34 You expect us to believe you read the Journal? ;) "Tegger" <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in message news:Xns9D15BC100395Etegger(a)208.90.168.18... > "Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2(a)lycos,com> wrote in > news:4b6b4732$0$31477$ce5e7886 > @news-radius.ptd.net: > >> Who told you that, your Toyota dealer ;) > > > The Wall Street Journal. > > Now answer the question, smiley. > > > -- > Tegger >
From: dr_jeff on 4 Feb 2010 20:51 Mike Hunter wrote: > You are free to believe whatever you choose, but WHY do you want to believe > that "dr_jeff," when vans are as tall, or taller than some SUVs? But then > again you always seem to believe whatever the politicians, bureaucrats and > conspiracy theorists want you to believe The NHTSA has actually studied the actual crashes, so I believe they know more about traffic crashes than you or I, particularly after you retired from the engineering side of the business. > The fact is during my many years working in vehicle design it was quite > apparent that it is only a perception, but not a fact, that a vehicle a foot > taller will more easily rollover, when actually the center of gravity of any > vehicle is just a bit above the center line of the drive train. Depends on the vehicle and how it is loaded. > The truth is EVERY vehicle has a tendency to fall back on it wheels, before > it will roll over, even when tipped up to over 45%, because most of its > weight is in the bottom 20% of the vehicle. Yet, certain vehicles, like SUVs roll over more often than cars. > Watch what happens why the run at high speed around city corners, the BLACK > CIA SUVs mealy spin out, or spin circles. When DO the want them to roll > they are first run up a ramp hidden behind another vehicle. > > When they want a tractor-trail to roll it ALWAYS must be one that is empty > and the tire pressure is lowered to just a few pounds PSI. Yeah. That's why they have the signs on roads that say tractor trailers have to slow down. And, why I see news reports of tractor trailers tipped over, and the trailers nearly full (I say nearly, because I see the contents spilled). What you say doesn't match reality. Jeff > "dr_jeff" <utz(a)msu.edu> wrote in message > news:_8GdnQZ37IVozvbWnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d(a)giganews.com... >> Mike Hunter wrote: >>> The irony is taller vehicles do not have any more tendency to rollover >>> than any other. >> According to the NHTSA, "We generally find that sport utility vehicles >> (SUVs) were more likely to have rolled over than pickups, which in turn >> were more likely to roll over than either vans or passenger cars." >> >> From publication number: 810741 here: >> http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Cats/listpublications.aspx?Id=C&ShowBy=DocType >> >> Or you can read the PDF yourself here: >> javascript:ShowFile('../Pubs/810741.PDF') >> >>> The perception is that a vehicle a foot taller will more >>> easily rollover when actually the center of gravity of any vehicle is >>> just a bit above the center line of the drive train. Wheel base has a >>> far greater effect on a vehicles ability to rollover. The truth is >>> EVERY vehicle has a tendency to fall back on it wheels, even when tipped >>> up to over 45%, because most of its weight is in the bottom 20% of the >>> vehicle. In movies, to get a vehicle to roll over, the FX guys must run >>> one side up a five foot high ramp >>> >>> If height actually attributed to rollovers, one should see box trucks >>> rolled over every day. >>> >>> In the end it proved that defective Firestone tires on the vehicles was >>> the cause and not the body design. >>> >>> The environuts jumped at the opportunity to scare buyer away from the >>> larger, safer vehicles that so many families were choosing to buy at the >>> time. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> "E. Meyer" <e.p.meyer(a)verizon.net> wrote in message >>> news:C7906C39.17000%e.p.meyer(a)verizon.net... >>>> On 2/3/10 7:28 PM, in article >>>> geWdnbQpzPojv_fWnZ2dnUVZ_rudnZ2d(a)giganews.com, >>>> "dbu''" <nospam(a)nobama.com.invalid> wrote: >>>> >>>>> In article <Xns9D14C85F6C360tegger(a)208.90.168.18>, >>>>> Tegger <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> "tww1491" <twaugh5(a)cox.net> wrote in >>>>>> news:Fooan.26826$fu3.6796(a)newsfe12.iad: >>>>>> >>>>>>> "jim beam" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:SYadnYVv5qcHDvTWnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... >>>>>>>> if toyota needs to learn a lesson from this fiasco, it's that they >>>>>>>> need to show up in washington and hand over their lobbying cash like >>>>>>>> detroit does, not be politically naive and simply rely on selling >>>>>>>> superior product. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> In the local paper a couple days ago, a 79 year old women crashed >>>>>>> into >>>>>>> a veterinarian's office claiming that the gas pedal on her new Toyota >>>>>>> stuck. The dealer found nothing wrong with the car. With that story >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> the paper were reports of drivers complaining to the local Toyota >>>>>>> dealer that they received speeding tickets because of "stuck" pedals. >>>>>>> And so it has begun. And yet much more to come. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Keep in mind that there have been exactly twelve (12) confirmed >>>>>> incidents >>>>>> of actual stuck gas pedals on Toyotas since October. Worldwide. Over >>>>>> 2.3 >>>>>> million vehicles. >>>>>> >>>>>> That's 0.00052%, in case anybody's counting. >>>>> That is well within any reasonable sample of defects for the NASA space >>>>> program parts!!! >>>>> >>>>> THIS has been wildly overblown. BUT....Toyota has been up to the >>>>> challenge. They will have it fixed. The Toyota vehicles will be >>>>> better >>>>> than the space shuttle after all is said and done. >>>> I remember a month or two after the overturning Ford Explorer fiasco hit >>>> the >>>> press there was suddenly an epidemic of SUVs of all makes and models >>>> flipping over on their sides at every intersection. Before all the >>>> publicity, I don't remember ever seeing an overturned SUV. Strange >>>> things >>>> happen when people start thinking they can cash in. >>>> >
From: jim beam on 4 Feb 2010 21:33 On 02/04/2010 07:51 AM, Mike Hunter wrote: > According to todays Tribune Newspapers, the Chairman of the House Oversight > Committee is stating Toyota will be asked about runaways problems with the > Tacoma truck. > > The NHTSA has received over 100 complaints about sudden uncontrolled > accelerations problem on the Tacoma, their truck that does NOT use the same > pedal assembly as the other recalled Toyotas. > > The article also refers to Japans Transport Ministry releasing that their > have been numerous complaints about "braking problems" with NEW generation > Prius. Toyota admits they are addressing braking problems in previous > Prius models but they are "unaware" of problems in the NEW generation Prius. > > The ever growing issue over sudden uncontrolled acceleration in most every > type of Toyota vehicle is having a sensitizing effect on consumers around > the world and Toyotas confusing responses are not helping the situation. > Curious ah? dude, at this stage it's mob hysteria. fact is, frod have defects that have killed thousands of americans. but rather than spend money on proper design and execution, they instead show up in d.c. with lobbyists and spend hundreds of millions of dollars making "contributions" to [which is MUCH cheaper b.t.w.] our representatives so they can stay off the political/legal radar screen. toyota, naively, just make great cars under the false impression that they're selling into a meritocracy that plays fair. and they are so wrong. but toyota, inadvertently, are shining the harsh light of reality on the utter debasement of american values with this bullshit from politicians that are prepared to take the dollar and turn a blind eye to manslaughter rather than stand up for the lives and values of citizens that elected them. it's an utter disgrace. > > "Tegger"<invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in message > news:Xns9D148F020FD93tegger(a)208.90.168.18... >> jim beam<me(a)privacy.net> wrote in >> news:SYadnYVv5qcHDvTWnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net: >> >>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100203/ts_alt_afp/japanusautocompanyrecal >>> ltoyota_20100203001517 >>> >>> "US chides Toyota over recall" >>> >>> this is back-door protectionist political bullshit. >>> >>> fact: ford, bmw, and others have all had throttle sensor problems, and >>> in much greater numbers than toyota. >>> >>> fact: the media has all but ignored it. >> >> >> >> >> Currently Toyota accounts for 41% of all unintended acceleration >> incidents. >> Ford accounts for 28%. Both Toyota and Ford have about a 16% market share >> apiece. >> >> GM and Chrysler have UA numbers smaller than their market shares. I don't >> know the exact number. >> >> >> -- >> Tegger >> > >
From: Jim Yanik on 4 Feb 2010 23:29 "E. Meyer" <e.p.meyer(a)verizon.net> wrote in news:C7906C39.17000%e.p.meyer(a)verizon.net: > On 2/3/10 7:28 PM, in article > geWdnbQpzPojv_fWnZ2dnUVZ_rudnZ2d(a)giganews.com, "dbu''" > <nospam(a)nobama.com.invalid> wrote: > >> In article <Xns9D14C85F6C360tegger(a)208.90.168.18>, >> Tegger <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote: >> >>> "tww1491" <twaugh5(a)cox.net> wrote in >>> news:Fooan.26826$fu3.6796(a)newsfe12.iad: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "jim beam" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message >>>> news:SYadnYVv5qcHDvTWnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... >>> >>>>> >>>>> if toyota needs to learn a lesson from this fiasco, it's that they >>>>> need to show up in washington and hand over their lobbying cash >>>>> like detroit does, not be politically naive and simply rely on >>>>> selling superior product. >>>>> >>>> >>>> In the local paper a couple days ago, a 79 year old women crashed >>>> into a veterinarian's office claiming that the gas pedal on her new >>>> Toyota stuck. The dealer found nothing wrong with the car. With >>>> that story in the paper were reports of drivers complaining to the >>>> local Toyota dealer that they received speeding tickets because of >>>> "stuck" pedals. And so it has begun. And yet much more to come. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Keep in mind that there have been exactly twelve (12) confirmed >>> incidents of actual stuck gas pedals on Toyotas since October. >>> Worldwide. Over 2.3 million vehicles. >>> >>> That's 0.00052%, in case anybody's counting. >> >> That is well within any reasonable sample of defects for the NASA >> space program parts!!! >> >> THIS has been wildly overblown. BUT....Toyota has been up to the >> challenge. They will have it fixed. The Toyota vehicles will be >> better than the space shuttle after all is said and done. > > I remember a month or two after the overturning Ford Explorer fiasco > hit the press there was suddenly an epidemic of SUVs of all makes and > models flipping over on their sides at every intersection. Before all > the publicity, I don't remember ever seeing an overturned SUV. > Strange things happen when people start thinking they can cash in. > > OTOH,it might be just that the media began NOTICING the SUV rollovers,and reporting nationally on every one that happened,instead of just local reporting. Kinda like reaching critical mass.... ;-) Now,I've been reading that the Obama administration's -reaction- to the Toyota recall may be due to union influence,considering Toyota is NON-union and a "foreign" automaker. (although it's cars have more domestic content than many "American" vehicles,that may be made in Canada or Mexico. On the Prius brake/cruise control problem,considering that car is a hybrid electric(with integral computer control of throttle/braking),I can see software bugs cropping up. Sometimes it takes a while to encounter a SW bug,particularly under unusual conditions. Like what happens if a ROM's data is corrupted;lose a byte here or there,in the wrong place,and you have a potentially hazardous condition waiting to be discovered.There's all sorts of reasons memory data could get corrupted,AFTER the car is shipped and sold. At least aircraft have redundant systems. that's why I'm not so hot on drive-by-wire autos;SW glitches. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at localnet dot com
From: jr92 on 4 Feb 2010 23:49
On Feb 3, 10:17 am, jim beam <m...(a)privacy.net> wrote: > http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100203/ts_alt_afp/japanusautocompanyrec... > > "US chides Toyota over recall" > > this is back-door protectionist political bullshit. You mean, like the Japanese version of protectionism that, in 2008, exported over 2 million vechicles to the US, while at the same time, only allowing 12 thousand American nameplates to be imported there?????? Or the type of protectionism that Japan displayed when they had their own "cash for clunkers" program, but excluded the handful of American nameplates that WERE sold there from the program??????? Sounds fair to me, I guess, if I were from Japan. > > fact: ford, bmw, and others have all had throttle sensor problems, and > in much greater numbers than toyota. > > fact: the media has all but ignored it. > Amazing statement. For over three decades, the media has lamblasted American autos for everything from interior light bulbs burning out, to weather stripping dry-rotting after 10 years. They hammered away repeatedly at the "lack of American reliability until many, who did not check things out on their own, began to believe them. Now, the worm is beginning to turn, and there are those who believed what the media said for thirty years, are accusing them of the same things they did against American nameplates. Maybe turn-a-bout IS fair play! > here we are, hot on the heels of political dismay at the unconsidered > consequences of their ridiculous "cash for clunkers" program benefiting > manufacturers of fuel efficient cars, not domestic gas guzzlers, being > subjected to politically motivated hysterical xenophobia. > Kinda funny how it took about 20 MILLION Toyota recalls over the past 3 or 4 years before it became politically motivated, or a "hysterical xeonphobia." Hell , a good chunk of the MILLIONS of recalls happened well before it became "chic' to knock Toyota. The sludging engines, or rusting supensions were known well before the US government began ownership in GM or Chysler, so there was nothing to be gained by the US pressuring Toyota into making recalls. There goes the 'conflict of interest" argument. And BTW, if you believe Toyota has NOT been spending bundles of money lobbying Washington, then YOU are more naive than you claim Toyota is. > fact: toyota sells better, more fuel efficient, safer, more reliable > vehicles using american parts and american labor than domestics > assembling their carp from the chinese componentry they import. > Really, you didn't make a single factual statement at all in this paragrah. Matter of fact, just the opposite of what you stated is actually true. > if toyota needs to learn a lesson from this fiasco, it's that they need > to show up in washington and hand over their lobbying cash like detroit > does, not be politically naive and simply rely on selling superior product. |