protectionist b.s.
in [Toyota]
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From: Mike Hunter on 4 Feb 2010 17:22 Who told you that, your Toyota dealer ;) "Tegger" <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in message news:Xns9D159028CFAEBtegger(a)208.90.168.18... > "Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2(a)lycos,com> wrote in > news:4b6aef1a$0$22841$ce5e7886(a)news-radius.ptd.net: > >> Get real, there have been 19 people killed, and an untold number of >> people injured driving runaway Toyotas, in the US alone. >> >> If I were driving a Toyota today, I would drive with my left foot >> poised over the brake pedal ;) > > > > You're aware that Ford accounts for 28% of SUA incidents? > > What are they doing about that? > > > -- > Tegger >
From: dr_jeff on 4 Feb 2010 18:10 Mike Hunter wrote: > The irony is taller vehicles do not have any more tendency to rollover than > any other. According to the NHTSA, "We generally find that sport utility vehicles (SUVs) were more likely to have rolled over than pickups, which in turn were more likely to roll over than either vans or passenger cars." From publication number: 810741 here: http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Cats/listpublications.aspx?Id=C&ShowBy=DocType Or you can read the PDF yourself here: javascript:ShowFile('../Pubs/810741.PDF') > The perception is that a vehicle a foot taller will more > easily rollover when actually the center of gravity of any vehicle is just a > bit above the center line of the drive train. Wheel base has a far > greater effect on a vehicles ability to rollover. The truth is EVERY > vehicle has a tendency to fall back on it wheels, even when tipped up to > over 45%, because most of its weight is in the bottom 20% of the vehicle. > In movies, to get a vehicle to roll over, the FX guys must run one side up a > five foot high ramp > > If height actually attributed to rollovers, one should see box trucks rolled > over every day. > > In the end it proved that defective Firestone tires on the vehicles was the > cause and not the body design. > > The environuts jumped at the opportunity to scare buyer away from the > larger, safer vehicles that so many families were choosing to buy at the > time. > > > > > "E. Meyer" <e.p.meyer(a)verizon.net> wrote in message > news:C7906C39.17000%e.p.meyer(a)verizon.net... >> On 2/3/10 7:28 PM, in article >> geWdnbQpzPojv_fWnZ2dnUVZ_rudnZ2d(a)giganews.com, >> "dbu''" <nospam(a)nobama.com.invalid> wrote: >> >>> In article <Xns9D14C85F6C360tegger(a)208.90.168.18>, >>> Tegger <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote: >>> >>>> "tww1491" <twaugh5(a)cox.net> wrote in >>>> news:Fooan.26826$fu3.6796(a)newsfe12.iad: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> "jim beam" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message >>>>> news:SYadnYVv5qcHDvTWnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... >>>>>> if toyota needs to learn a lesson from this fiasco, it's that they >>>>>> need to show up in washington and hand over their lobbying cash like >>>>>> detroit does, not be politically naive and simply rely on selling >>>>>> superior product. >>>>>> >>>>> In the local paper a couple days ago, a 79 year old women crashed into >>>>> a veterinarian's office claiming that the gas pedal on her new Toyota >>>>> stuck. The dealer found nothing wrong with the car. With that story in >>>>> the paper were reports of drivers complaining to the local Toyota >>>>> dealer that they received speeding tickets because of "stuck" pedals. >>>>> And so it has begun. And yet much more to come. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Keep in mind that there have been exactly twelve (12) confirmed >>>> incidents >>>> of actual stuck gas pedals on Toyotas since October. Worldwide. Over 2.3 >>>> million vehicles. >>>> >>>> That's 0.00052%, in case anybody's counting. >>> That is well within any reasonable sample of defects for the NASA space >>> program parts!!! >>> >>> THIS has been wildly overblown. BUT....Toyota has been up to the >>> challenge. They will have it fixed. The Toyota vehicles will be better >>> than the space shuttle after all is said and done. >> I remember a month or two after the overturning Ford Explorer fiasco hit >> the >> press there was suddenly an epidemic of SUVs of all makes and models >> flipping over on their sides at every intersection. Before all the >> publicity, I don't remember ever seeing an overturned SUV. Strange things >> happen when people start thinking they can cash in. >> > >
From: Tegger on 4 Feb 2010 18:29 "Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2(a)lycos,com> wrote in news:4b6b4732$0$31477$ce5e7886 @news-radius.ptd.net: > Who told you that, your Toyota dealer ;) The Wall Street Journal. Now answer the question, smiley. -- Tegger
From: Grumpy AuContraire on 4 Feb 2010 19:28 Tegger wrote: > Grumpy AuContraire <GrumpyOne(a)GrumpyvilleNOT.com> wrote in > news:xPWdna6j1_8ocPTWnZ2dnUVZ_judnZ2d(a)giganews.com: > > >> Simply put, a substantial number of people behind the wheel just don't >> belong there... >> > > > Except that four of the reported five deaths involved a highly-trained > policeman. Yeah, but we all know that cops are not selected as the best and brightest. OTOH, if they got smacked by the Toyota, nothin's poifect! JT
From: Mike Hunter on 4 Feb 2010 19:33
You are free to believe whatever you choose, but WHY do you want to believe that "dr_jeff," when vans are as tall, or taller than some SUVs? But then again you always seem to believe whatever the politicians, bureaucrats and conspiracy theorists want you to believe The fact is during my many years working in vehicle design it was quite apparent that it is only a perception, but not a fact, that a vehicle a foot taller will more easily rollover, when actually the center of gravity of any vehicle is just a bit above the center line of the drive train. The truth is EVERY vehicle has a tendency to fall back on it wheels, before it will roll over, even when tipped up to over 45%, because most of its weight is in the bottom 20% of the vehicle. Watch what happens why the run at high speed around city corners, the BLACK CIA SUVs mealy spin out, or spin circles. When DO the want them to roll they are first run up a ramp hidden behind another vehicle. When they want a tractor-trail to roll it ALWAYS must be one that is empty and the tire pressure is lowered to just a few pounds PSI. "dr_jeff" <utz(a)msu.edu> wrote in message news:_8GdnQZ37IVozvbWnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d(a)giganews.com... > Mike Hunter wrote: >> The irony is taller vehicles do not have any more tendency to rollover >> than any other. > > According to the NHTSA, "We generally find that sport utility vehicles > (SUVs) were more likely to have rolled over than pickups, which in turn > were more likely to roll over than either vans or passenger cars." > > From publication number: 810741 here: > http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Cats/listpublications.aspx?Id=C&ShowBy=DocType > > Or you can read the PDF yourself here: > javascript:ShowFile('../Pubs/810741.PDF') > > > The perception is that a vehicle a foot taller will more >> easily rollover when actually the center of gravity of any vehicle is >> just a bit above the center line of the drive train. Wheel base has a >> far greater effect on a vehicles ability to rollover. The truth is >> EVERY vehicle has a tendency to fall back on it wheels, even when tipped >> up to over 45%, because most of its weight is in the bottom 20% of the >> vehicle. In movies, to get a vehicle to roll over, the FX guys must run >> one side up a five foot high ramp >> >> If height actually attributed to rollovers, one should see box trucks >> rolled over every day. >> >> In the end it proved that defective Firestone tires on the vehicles was >> the cause and not the body design. >> >> The environuts jumped at the opportunity to scare buyer away from the >> larger, safer vehicles that so many families were choosing to buy at the >> time. >> >> >> >> >> "E. Meyer" <e.p.meyer(a)verizon.net> wrote in message >> news:C7906C39.17000%e.p.meyer(a)verizon.net... >>> On 2/3/10 7:28 PM, in article >>> geWdnbQpzPojv_fWnZ2dnUVZ_rudnZ2d(a)giganews.com, >>> "dbu''" <nospam(a)nobama.com.invalid> wrote: >>> >>>> In article <Xns9D14C85F6C360tegger(a)208.90.168.18>, >>>> Tegger <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote: >>>> >>>>> "tww1491" <twaugh5(a)cox.net> wrote in >>>>> news:Fooan.26826$fu3.6796(a)newsfe12.iad: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "jim beam" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message >>>>>> news:SYadnYVv5qcHDvTWnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... >>>>>>> if toyota needs to learn a lesson from this fiasco, it's that they >>>>>>> need to show up in washington and hand over their lobbying cash like >>>>>>> detroit does, not be politically naive and simply rely on selling >>>>>>> superior product. >>>>>>> >>>>>> In the local paper a couple days ago, a 79 year old women crashed >>>>>> into >>>>>> a veterinarian's office claiming that the gas pedal on her new Toyota >>>>>> stuck. The dealer found nothing wrong with the car. With that story >>>>>> in >>>>>> the paper were reports of drivers complaining to the local Toyota >>>>>> dealer that they received speeding tickets because of "stuck" pedals. >>>>>> And so it has begun. And yet much more to come. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Keep in mind that there have been exactly twelve (12) confirmed >>>>> incidents >>>>> of actual stuck gas pedals on Toyotas since October. Worldwide. Over >>>>> 2.3 >>>>> million vehicles. >>>>> >>>>> That's 0.00052%, in case anybody's counting. >>>> That is well within any reasonable sample of defects for the NASA space >>>> program parts!!! >>>> >>>> THIS has been wildly overblown. BUT....Toyota has been up to the >>>> challenge. They will have it fixed. The Toyota vehicles will be >>>> better >>>> than the space shuttle after all is said and done. >>> I remember a month or two after the overturning Ford Explorer fiasco hit >>> the >>> press there was suddenly an epidemic of SUVs of all makes and models >>> flipping over on their sides at every intersection. Before all the >>> publicity, I don't remember ever seeing an overturned SUV. Strange >>> things >>> happen when people start thinking they can cash in. >>> >> |