GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL
in [Toyota]
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From: JoeSpareBedroom on 20 Mar 2007 10:36 "Big Al" <sal1(a)qwest.net> wrote in message news:45fff0eb$0$493$815e3792(a)news.qwest.net... > > "Big Al" <sal1(a)qwest.net> wrote in message > news:45ffefa3$0$492$815e3792(a)news.qwest.net... >> >> "SnoMan" <admin(a)snoman.com> wrote in message >> news:o4hvv2hiptimfos27kv0vfuq2sjtgjqrmb(a)4ax.com... >> > On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 03:13:38 GMT, "C. E. White" >> > <cewhite(a)mindspring.com> wrote: >> > >> > >I agree with you that the new Tundra ads are deceptive >> > >> > >> > No where near as despective as some of detriots tow ratings. I am not >> > pro toyota here but Detriot uses no science with its ratings and Ford >> > inflated their max 1/2 ton ratings because of Yota but the facts are >> > it does not have near the power than the yota does. If you do the math >> > and factor is axle ratio, rated torque and RPM, and transmision >> > ratios, the Yota beats them all is actal drawbar or pulling power. It >> > takes power to move the load, not a inflated rating. Be glad there is >> > a Toyota because Detriot will be forced to improve their trucks >> > against it and consumers will get a better product in the end. Toyota >> > has their act together with the new Tundra with a 5.7 and a 6 speed >> > and they even spaced the tranny ratios properly to best apply power to >> > load (you can hit torque peak in the first three gears by 58 MPH in it >> > at 24, 41 and 58 MPH respecably vs 32 ,54 and 85 MPH for Ford, 39, 65 >> > and 96 MPH for GM 6.0 Vortec max and 33, 60 and 99 MPH for Dodge Hemi. >> > Not only does the Toyota have more usable and effective gearing to get >> > load moving, it also has more torque as well to apply to those gears >> > so it is simple physics here. The Yota has the greatest mechanical >> > advantage over the load via gearing and availble power so it will pull >> > a load better than any of them. Kinda a like comparing a small guy >> > with a pry bar against a big guy with a bigger pry bar try to move >> > something. The Yota has the bigger guy (more torque) and the longer >> > bar (better effective gearing) so the end result is quite predicable >> > before you even hitch it up to a load. The scary part is that the Yota >> > actaully has more true towing/pulling power to move a load than all >> > new gas powered 3/4 and 1 ton trucks if you do the math since GM no >> > longer has the 8.1 and the Hemi is no tow king. A Ford V10 would be >> > the only one to likley meet of exceed it. (we are talking actual >> > towing power that can be aplied to load not weather it is a 1/2 ton >> > or 3/4 ton chassis) Given the math behind the new Tndra, if they go >> > into the 3/4 and 1 ton market Detriot better get their act together >> > because if Yota can make a 1/2 ton that can pull that hard just think >> > of what they could do with a 3/4 ton or bigger. >> > ----------------- >> > TheSnoMan.com >> >> Where did you find the gear ratios for the above trucks and do you have > them >> for the Nissan Titan? Did you ever see a Dodge Mega Cab 1500? The 06 is a >> full 3/4 ton truck disguised as a 1/2 ton. >> >> Just wondering.... >> >> Al >> > BTW: GMC is still showing the 8.1 as an option?? > > Al Go check their web site.
From: Mike Hunter on 20 Mar 2007 11:14 As quoted directly for the Ford Dealer Order Guide What part of, "Trailer Tow Package" includes Class IV trailer hitch receiver, 7-pin wiring harness, upgraded radiator and upgraded auxiliary transmission oil cooler (requires 4.6L or 5.4L Triton� V8); aux. trans. oil cooler only with 4.2L V6 A/T, did you not understand? > mike "C. E. White" <cewhite(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message news:CjILh.129358$_73.79271(a)newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net... > > "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote in message > news:8dudnc62HZndt2LYnZ2dnUVZ_qGjnZ2d(a)ptd.net... >> Aparently have not been following the thread. The dicsssion was about >> Tundra phony TV ads and their 10,000 towing ability. . If one is looking >> to buy a truck with which to tow they can not buy a Ford equipped to tow >> pack that does not have a V8. You are corect the six speed, is a late >> option, not currantaly available > > I agree with you that the new Tundra ads are deceptive. That is not an > issue. In my post I was trying to correct all the errors you made > regarding Ford trucks. Apparently you did not bother to read my post and > you reposted more incorrect information regarding Ford trucks with the > V-6. > > I'll try to set you straight about the Ford one more time - > > GO READ THE 2007 F150 ORDERING GUIDE - it definitely allows the Towing > Package with the V-6 and a manual transmission. And if you use the Ford > Website to build your F150, it will let you build one that way. Dealers > don't order many of them that way, but they do occasionally. I had no > trouble at all finding a manual transmission V-6 with the towing package > in a dealers stock (VIN 1FTRF12237NA36871 at Beach Ford Inc., 2717 > Virginia Beach Boulevard, Virginia Beach, VA). I had no problem finding a > V-6 Automatic with the towing package either. How many VINs do you want me > to post to prove your are wrong? For a normal person finding one should > be enough to prove that you can order a V-6 Manual Transmission F150 with > the towing package, but you don't seem to be able to admit it when you are > wrong. > > Ed > > >> mike >> >> Ford dealer Guide Maximum Loaded Trailer Weight (Lbs.) - Automatic >> Transmission >> >> Engine Axle Ratio GCWR (Lbs.) >> 126 - inch wheel base 144.5 - inch wheel base >> 4.2L SEFI V6 3.55 10000 5200 5100 >> (trailer tow package requires 4.6L V8) >> 4.6L Triton� SEFI V8 3.55 11500 6600 - 6200 >> 5.4L Triton� 3-valve SEFI V8 3.55 13000 8000 - 7700 >> >> (All Ford trucks since the late eignties have required an automatic >> tranny if the TT option was added). >> >> Trailer tow package >> >> Includes Class IV trailer hitch receiver, 7-pin wiring harness, upgraded >> radiator and upgraded auxiliary transmission oil cooler (requires 4.6L or >> 5.4L Triton� V8); aux. trans. oil cooler only with 4.2L V6 A/T
From: C. E. White on 20 Mar 2007 11:27 "JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message news:LXRLh.5275$ya1.2331(a)news02.roc.ny... > I generally avoid companies who've previously sold me products that > were intentionally made defective. I violated my rule once with > Ford. I won't do it a second time unless they give me the product > for free, and pay me a hefty aggravation bonus any time it had what > I considered to be a stupid problem. $1000.00 per incident would be > about right. So Toyota has never sold a defective product? How about the thousands of prior model Tundras with bad ball joints? Or with piston slap prone engines? Just a quick Google of "Toyota Tundra recall" got over 600,000 hits. Here are a few references from just the first page of hits: http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_tundra_engine.html http://ezinearticles.com/?Toyota-Tundra-Recall:-New-Trucks-Brakes-Break&id=47569 http://www.autoblog.com/2006/08/08/toyota-facing-anothertundra-recall/ http://www.lemonauto.com/complaints/toyota/toyota_tundra.htm http://www.internetautoguide.com/auto-recalls/09-int/2000/toyota/tundra/index.html http://www.autobuyguide.com/2005/12-aut/toyota/tundra/recalls/index.html I am not saying that this proves the Tundra is a "bad" truck. But I don't think it is fair for people to claim Tundras have extraordinarily high quality either. And before you ask, a Google search for "Ford F250 Recall" got around 123,00 hits. It is hard to do a valid comparison of the number of recalls for the two trucks because NHTSA often mixes all Ford SD recalls together, but then reports some only by a particular model, but I'll try (only safety recalls counted). Information is from NHTSA: Toyota Tundra Recalls - 1999 Tundra - 1 Recall - 70717 Vehicles, Trailer Hitches (includes multiple years) 2000 Tundra - 4 Recalls - 70717 Vehicles, Trailer Hitches (includes multiple years) - 61944 Vehicles, Exterior Lighting (includes multiple years / accessory lighting) - 3593 Vehicles, Exterior Lighting (includes multiple years / accessory lighting) - 16472 Vehicles, Exterior Lighting 2001 Tundra - 2 Recalls - 61944 Vehicles, Exterior Lighting (includes multiple years / accessory lighting) - 3593 Vehicles, Exterior Lighting (includes multiple years / accessory lighting) 2002 Tundra - 3 Recalls - 61944 Vehicles, Exterior Lighting (includes multiple years / accessory lighting) - 3593 Vehicles, Exterior Lighting (includes multiple years / accessory lighting) - 768379 Vehicles, Lower Ball Joints (includes multiple years) 2003 Tundra - 4 Recalls - 61944 Vehicles, Exterior Lighting (includes multiple years / accessory lighting) - 3593 Vehicles, Exterior Lighting (includes multiple years / accessory lighting) - 768379 Vehicles, Lower Ball Joints (includes multiple years) - 156111 Vehicles, Air Bag Deactivation Switch (includes multiple years) 2004 Tundra - 7 Recalls - 61944 Vehicles, Exterior Lighting (includes multiple years / accessory lighting) - 3593 Vehicles, Exterior Lighting (includes multiple years / accessory lighting) - 27176 Vehicles, Exterior Lighting (includes multiple years / accessory lighting) - 768379 Vehicles, Lower Ball Joints (includes multiple years) - 156111 Vehicles, Air Bag Deactivation Switch (includes multiple years) - 5726 Vehicle, Exhaust System (includes multiple years, this is the problem where the exhaust melts the brake line) - 533124 Vehicles, Lower Ball Joints (includes multiple years, this is a separate recall from the other ball joint recall) 2005 Tundra - 5 Recalls - 27176 Vehicles, Exterior Lighting (includes multiple years / accessory lighting) - 156111 Vehicles, Air Bag Deactivation Switch (includes multiple years) - 533124 Vehicles, Lower Ball Joints (includes multiple years, this is a separate recall from the other ball joint recall) - 5726 Vehicles, Exhaust System (includes multiple years, this is the problem where the exhaust melts the brake line) - 2527 Vehicles, Air Bags 2006 Tundra - 2 Recalls - 27176 Vehicles, Exterior Lighting (includes multiple years / accessory lighting) - 533124 Vehicles, Lower Ball Joints (includes multiple years, this is a separate recall from the other ball joint recall) Ford F250 Recalls - 1999 F250 - 5 Recalls (including recall that affect all SDs) - 61944 Vehicles, Exterior Lighting (includes multiple years / accessory lighting) - 58640 Vehicles, Fuel Filter (aftermarket filter, not Ford) - 10537 Vehicles, Vehicle Speed Control - includes F350/F450/etc (includes multiple years) - 3500 Vehicles, Vehicle Speed Control (cable) - includes F350/F450/etc - 19187 Vehicles, Vehicle Speed Control - includes F350/F450/etc 2000 F250 - 4 Recall (including recalls that affect all SDs) - 61944 Vehicles, Exterior Lighting (includes multiple years / accessory lighting) - 8100 Vehicles, Brake Pedal - includes F350/F450/etc - 12850 Vehicles, Brake Light Switch - includes F350/F450/etc - 10537 Vehicles, Vehicle Speed Control - includes F350/F450/etc (includes multiple years) 2001 F250 - 2 Recalls (including recalls that affect all SDs) - 61944 Vehicles, Exterior Lighting (includes multiple years / accessory lighting) - 185 Vehicles, Fuel Filler Pipe - includes F350/F450/etc 2002 F250 - 3 Recalls - 27176 Vehicles, Exterior Lighting (includes multiple years / accessory lighting) - 14616 Vehicles, Exterior Lighting (includes multiple years / accessory lighting) - 1200000 Vehicles, Vehicle Speed Control - includes F150/Expedition/F350/F450/etc (includes multiple years) 2003 F250 - 5 Recalls - 61944 Vehicles, Exterior Lighting (includes multiple years / accessory lighting) - 27176 Vehicles, Exterior Lighting (includes multiple years / accessory lighting) - 14616 Vehicles, Exterior Lighting (includes multiple years / accessory lighting) - 83687 Vehicles, Battery - 155584 Vehicles, Vehicle Speed Control - includes F350/F450/etc (includes multiple years) 2004 F250 - 2 Recalls - 61944 Vehicles, Exterior Lighting (includes multiple years / accessory lighting) - 180104 Vehicles, Wiring (includes multiple years) 2005 F250 - 2 Recalls - 450 Vehicles, Air Brakes (this is not actually an F250 recall since they don't have air brakes) - 180104 Vehicles, Wiring (includes multiple years) - 78675 Vehicles, Fuel Lines 2006 F250 - 2 Recalls - 450 Vehicles, Air Brakes (this is not actually an F250 recall since they don't have air brakes) - 34296 Vehicles, Tires (not really a Ford Recall - Continental recalled the tires) I think if you look over the list, I do not think you can claim that Toyota Tundras are special when it comes to defects compared to an F250. I was amused by how many recalls aren't really Toyota's or Ford's "fault." What is it with all the exterior lighting recalls? Are dealers festooning these trucks with illegal lights? Ed
From: JoeSpareBedroom on 20 Mar 2007 11:39 "C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)removemindspring.com> wrote in message news:45fffdf2(a)kcnews01... > > "JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:LXRLh.5275$ya1.2331(a)news02.roc.ny... > >> I generally avoid companies who've previously sold me products that were >> intentionally made defective. I violated my rule once with Ford. I won't >> do it a second time unless they give me the product for free, and pay me >> a hefty aggravation bonus any time it had what I considered to be a >> stupid problem. $1000.00 per incident would be about right. > > So Toyota has never sold a defective product? How about the thousands of > prior model Tundras with bad ball joints? Or with piston slap prone > engines? Every product has a defect now and then. However, you apparently missed the word "INTENTIONAL". Tell me you saw it, and what you thought about the presence of the word in my comment.
From: DH on 19 Mar 2007 16:01
"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno(a)AE86.gts> wrote in message news:axGKh.62$282.23(a)trndny04... > On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 20:23:34 -0600, dh wrote: > >> "C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)removemindspring.com> wrote in message >> news:45f9b22b$1(a)kcnews01... >>> Borrowed off the Internet....I am just the messenger, although I agree >>> that the new Tundra ads are deliberately misleading.... >>> >>> Lou Kaltenstein >>> President >>> Gene Norris Buick-GMC Trucks Inc./Norris Auto Group 18170 Bagley Rd >>> Middleburg Hts., Ohio 44130 >>> >>> There has been a lot of talk about Toyota Tundra's new ads and how >>> impressive they are. Here are some myths about their spots that I have >>> found and that should be refuted. Also, they are offering a "IVC" type >>> program on Tundra to help with sales. >>> >> [chop] >> >> Oh My God! An ad that's actually a dramatization! You could knock me >> over with a feather! >> >> Lou's just jealous. In this article, note the SPD (sales per dealer) >> figures: >> >> http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=3332 > > No wonder Chevy dealers are just about GIVING the Cobalt away! Are they? At free, a Cobalt would almost be a good deal... .... almost. >> (towards the bottom of the article proper) Buick gets a mention that >> explains Lou's jealousy. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |