GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL
in [Toyota]
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From: . on 20 Mar 2007 02:53 On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 14:07:20 -0600, Dante <dante(a)xmission.com> wrote: >Viperkiller wrote: >> On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 19:53:54 -0400, "Mike Hunter" >> <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote: >> >>> I guess we can assume you do not go to many bone yards. As a percentage of >>> the trucks sold in the US, there are a hell of a lot more rusted Toyota >>> trucks in the bone yards ;) >>> >>> mike >>> >> >> I'm sure that's something that you really kept track of and have proof >> of. Perhaps you read too many GM brochures. > >Why would a Toyota driver have to be a frequenter of bone yards? > >Dante Excellent point. Mike Hunter is a Ford owner so that explains why he frequents bone yards.
From: SnoMan on 20 Mar 2007 07:53 On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 03:13:38 GMT, "C. E. White" <cewhite(a)mindspring.com> wrote: >I agree with you that the new Tundra ads are deceptive No where near as despective as some of detriots tow ratings. I am not pro toyota here but Detriot uses no science with its ratings and Ford inflated their max 1/2 ton ratings because of Yota but the facts are it does not have near the power than the yota does. If you do the math and factor is axle ratio, rated torque and RPM, and transmision ratios, the Yota beats them all is actal drawbar or pulling power. It takes power to move the load, not a inflated rating. Be glad there is a Toyota because Detriot will be forced to improve their trucks against it and consumers will get a better product in the end. Toyota has their act together with the new Tundra with a 5.7 and a 6 speed and they even spaced the tranny ratios properly to best apply power to load (you can hit torque peak in the first three gears by 58 MPH in it at 24, 41 and 58 MPH respecably vs 32 ,54 and 85 MPH for Ford, 39, 65 and 96 MPH for GM 6.0 Vortec max and 33, 60 and 99 MPH for Dodge Hemi. Not only does the Toyota have more usable and effective gearing to get load moving, it also has more torque as well to apply to those gears so it is simple physics here. The Yota has the greatest mechanical advantage over the load via gearing and availble power so it will pull a load better than any of them. Kinda a like comparing a small guy with a pry bar against a big guy with a bigger pry bar try to move something. The Yota has the bigger guy (more torque) and the longer bar (better effective gearing) so the end result is quite predicable before you even hitch it up to a load. The scary part is that the Yota actaully has more true towing/pulling power to move a load than all new gas powered 3/4 and 1 ton trucks if you do the math since GM no longer has the 8.1 and the Hemi is no tow king. A Ford V10 would be the only one to likley meet of exceed it. (we are talking actual towing power that can be aplied to load not weather it is a 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton chassis) Given the math behind the new Tndra, if they go into the 3/4 and 1 ton market Detriot better get their act together because if Yota can make a 1/2 ton that can pull that hard just think of what they could do with a 3/4 ton or bigger. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com
From: Scott in Florida on 20 Mar 2007 08:42 On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 01:53:16 -0500, . <nothing(a)nothing.com> wrote: >On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 14:07:20 -0600, Dante <dante(a)xmission.com> wrote: > >>Viperkiller wrote: >>> On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 19:53:54 -0400, "Mike Hunter" >>> <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I guess we can assume you do not go to many bone yards. As a percentage of >>>> the trucks sold in the US, there are a hell of a lot more rusted Toyota >>>> trucks in the bone yards ;) >>>> >>>> mike >>>> >>> >>> I'm sure that's something that you really kept track of and have proof >>> of. Perhaps you read too many GM brochures. >> >>Why would a Toyota driver have to be a frequenter of bone yards? >> >>Dante > >Excellent point. Mike Hunter is a Ford owner so that explains why he >frequents bone yards. He trades before the warranty is up. No need to visit bone yards in those cases.... -- Scott in Florida
From: C. E. White on 20 Mar 2007 08:48 "SnoMan" <admin(a)snoman.com> wrote in message news:o4hvv2hiptimfos27kv0vfuq2sjtgjqrmb(a)4ax.com... > On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 03:13:38 GMT, "C. E. White" > <cewhite(a)mindspring.com> wrote: > >>I agree with you that the new Tundra ads are deceptive > > > No where near as despective as some of detriots tow ratings. I am > not > pro toyota here but Detriot uses no science with its ratings and > Ford > inflated their max 1/2 ton ratings because of Yota but the facts are > it does not have near the power than the yota does. If you do the > math > and factor is axle ratio, rated torque and RPM, and transmision > ratios, the Yota beats them all is actal drawbar or pulling power. > It > takes power to move the load, not a inflated rating. Be glad there > is > a Toyota because Detriot will be forced to improve their trucks > against it and consumers will get a better product in the end. > Toyota > has their act together with the new Tundra with a 5.7 and a 6 speed > and they even spaced the tranny ratios properly to best apply power > to > load (you can hit torque peak in the first three gears by 58 MPH in > it > at 24, 41 and 58 MPH respecably vs 32 ,54 and 85 MPH for Ford, 39, > 65 > and 96 MPH for GM 6.0 Vortec max and 33, 60 and 99 MPH for Dodge > Hemi. > Not only does the Toyota have more usable and effective gearing to > get > load moving, it also has more torque as well to apply to those gears > so it is simple physics here. The Yota has the greatest mechanical > advantage over the load via gearing and availble power so it will > pull > a load better than any of them. Kinda a like comparing a small guy > with a pry bar against a big guy with a bigger pry bar try to move > something. The Yota has the bigger guy (more torque) and the longer > bar (better effective gearing) so the end result is quite predicable > before you even hitch it up to a load. The scary part is that the > Yota > actaully has more true towing/pulling power to move a load than all > new gas powered 3/4 and 1 ton trucks if you do the math since GM no > longer has the 8.1 and the Hemi is no tow king. A Ford V10 would be > the only one to likley meet of exceed it. (we are talking actual > towing power that can be aplied to load not weather it is a 1/2 ton > or 3/4 ton chassis) Given the math behind the new Tndra, if they go > into the 3/4 and 1 ton market Detriot better get their act together > because if Yota can make a 1/2 ton that can pull that hard just > think > of what they could do with a 3/4 ton or bigger. > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com It is not the going that bothers me, it is the stopping.... If I wanted to tow a heavy load, I would go for an F250/F350. They also have a six speed transmission. Ford/GM/Dodge all have 3/4 and 1 ton trucks for people that actually need to tow 10,000 lbs. Toyota is not trying to create that distinction i.e., they don't have a separate Tundra HD model to compete with the F350/350 or Silverado HD. If you want to compare the Tundra to other trucks capable of towing heavy loads, then I contend you must compare it to the heavy duty pick-ups from Ford, GM, and Dodge. And if you want to limit your discussion to big "gas" engines, then here are the engine comparisons: Tundra - 5.7L V-8 - 381 hp @ 5600 rpm 401 lb.-ft. @ 3600 rpm F250 - 6.8L V-10 - 362 hp @ 4750 rpm 457 lb. -ft @ 3250 rpm Silverado HD2500 6.0L V-8 - 367 hp @ 5500 rpm 375 lb. - ft @ 4300 rpm Dodge 2500 - 345 hp @ 5400 rpm 375 lb. - ft @ 4200 rpm For towing I would contend that torque is more important that horsepower -especially horsepower at 5600 rpm. Which engine would you rather have to tow a heavy load? The one with 401 lb.-ft of torque at 3600 rpm, or the one with 457 lb.- ft of torque at 3250 rpm? F250s also have a six speed automatic transmission and offer a variety of rear gear ratios? So if you wanted to tow a heavy load, which truck would be the better choice? As an aside - I run a small farm and raise cattle (I sell around 20 claves a year to the feeder calf market). I can't justify owning a HD truck and cattle trailer for my 1 or 2 trips to the sale a year, so I hire one of my neighbors to do it for me. He has a fifth wheel cattle trailer that can haul 20 to 25 calves at a time (figure around 9,000 lbs of cattle + the trailer). Until this year he has always used an F250 with a diesel to pull the trailer. When he moved some cattle for me earlier this year, he had a new F350. I assumed it was a diesel. I was curious how the "new" powerstroke diesel performed compared to the older versions. I started asking him about the truck and he was very positive. Said it pulled really well and that he really liked the engine except the fuel economy was not as good. This confused me because I though the new diesels were supposed to be better. When I mentioned this, he just laughed. He explained he didn't get a diesel. His new truck had a 5.4L V-8. He said it had plenty of power and towing the trailer was not a problem at all. It was his opinion than even the V-10 was overkill and the expensive diesel option was completely unnecessary. Ed
From: C. E. White on 20 Mar 2007 09:10
One more thing - The list price for a stripped F250 V-10 six speed automatic is less than the price for a stripped Tundra 5.7L V-8 six speed automatic even before the $3000 rebate on the F250 is figured in. Ed |