Bias Against Domestic Cars
in [Toyota]
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From: PerfectReign on 23 Nov 2009 16:31 On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 07:21:51 -0500, Ed Pawlowski fired up the etcha-a-sketch and scratched out: > "SMS" <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote in message >> >> Because there's never been even the slightest bit of bias shown in >> Consumer Reports' reviews. These complaints have always been sour >> grapes. > > How about other products? What CR calls a design defect, I've often > called a good feature. Their expectations differ too much from mine to > be regarded as meaningful. Valid point. As an example, back in the '80s when I read CR, I always noticed them mentioning "cheap plastic" on GM interiors. I never knew what cheap plastic meant as compared to non-cheap or expensive plastic. It is all plastic. In any case, I drove to work in my Chevy Avalanche, and then hopped into a sub-compact Prius for a work trip with some of my staff. I drove the Prius about twenty miles, which was something like 45 minutes one way and about 30 the other way. I see no difference between the car and my truck in terms of apparent build quality. Granted the Prius is a low-end subcompact as compared to my mid-level Avalanche. But the build quality appears about the same. -- perfectreign www.perfectreign.com || www.ecmplace.com a turn signal is a statement, not a request
From: dr_jeff on 23 Nov 2009 20:20 Mike Hunter wrote: > You are confused, again dr_jeff. JD Powers reports are directed to the > MAJORITY of new vehicle buyers, not used car buyers. Used vehicle buyers > are primarily the concern of dealerships, who must move their used cars I am not confused at all. I didn't say a word about used cars. > The fact is the average new vehicle buyer in the US, replaces that NEW > vehicle with another NEW vehicle, in three to four years with 45,000 to > 60,000 miles on the odometer. Surveys from JD Powers, like those from CR, > simply show that they ALL fall within the 2% failure rate for ALL > manufactured products. Bull. Not every manufactured product has a 2% failure rate. Some have a far higher rate and some a far lower rate. > Any car sold in the US today will easily run to 150,000 mile or more with > the proper preventive maintenance. For the average new vehicle buyer in the > US, that is around ten years. The only REAL difference among them is style > and price. In your opinion. > As to those few new vehicle buyers who keep their vehicle until it fall > apart, like major fleet owners, they should be more cognizant of the total > initial cost, shop rates, insurance rates and the price of parts. The > fact is they ALL need to be maintained and repaired at some point Yet some need to be repaired more than others. To think that there is an accross-the-board 2% failure rate on anything is stupid and naive at best. Jeff > "dr_jeff" <utz(a)msu.edu> wrote in message >> But this is still a survey, with the limitations of a survey. >> >> Plus, the study was with cars that were about 2 or 3 years old (2006 model >> year study done in Oct. 2008). It doesn't say how well cars hold up after >> this period. What would be a far better study would be a study of what is >> actually replaced by owners during the life of the car. It would be a hard >> study to do. >> >> Jeff > >
From: Mike Hunter on 24 Nov 2009 10:49 Apparently you are still confused, dr_jeff. If you do a search you will discover that 2% IS the average failure rate of all manufacturer products, whether you chose to believe that fact or not is immaterial. "dr_jeff" <utz(a)msu.edu> wrote in message news:b6Cdne0MT6ZfqZbWnZ2dnUVZ_gidnZ2d(a)giganews.com... > Mike Hunter wrote: >> You are confused, again dr_jeff. JD Powers reports are directed to the >> MAJORITY of new vehicle buyers, not used car buyers. Used vehicle >> buyers are primarily the concern of dealerships, who must move their used >> cars > > I am not confused at all. I didn't say a word about used cars. > >> The fact is the average new vehicle buyer in the US, replaces that NEW >> vehicle with another NEW vehicle, in three to four years with 45,000 to >> 60,000 miles on the odometer. Surveys from JD Powers, like those from >> CR, simply show that they ALL fall within the 2% failure rate for ALL >> manufactured products. > > Bull. Not every manufactured product has a 2% failure rate. Some have a > far higher rate and some a far lower rate. > >> Any car sold in the US today will easily run to 150,000 mile or more with >> the proper preventive maintenance. For the average new vehicle buyer in >> the US, that is around ten years. The only REAL difference among them is >> style and price. > > In your opinion. > >> As to those few new vehicle buyers who keep their vehicle until it fall >> apart, like major fleet owners, they should be more cognizant of the >> total initial cost, shop rates, insurance rates and the price of parts. >> The fact is they ALL need to be maintained and repaired at some point > > Yet some need to be repaired more than others. To think that there is an > accross-the-board 2% failure rate on anything is stupid and naive at best. > > Jeff >> "dr_jeff" <utz(a)msu.edu> wrote in message >>> But this is still a survey, with the limitations of a survey. >>> >>> Plus, the study was with cars that were about 2 or 3 years old (2006 >>> model year study done in Oct. 2008). It doesn't say how well cars hold >>> up after this period. What would be a far better study would be a study >>> of what is actually replaced by owners during the life of the car. It >>> would be a hard study to do. >>> >>> Jeff >>
From: SMS on 24 Nov 2009 11:33 Ed Pawlowski wrote: > "SMS" <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote in message >> Because there's never been even the slightest bit of bias shown in >> Consumer Reports' reviews. These complaints have always been sour grapes. > > How about other products? What CR calls a design defect, I've often called > a good feature. Their expectations differ too much from mine to be regarded > as meaningful. Consumer Reports values safety, reliability, and value. It's true that there are other aspects of vehicles (and other products) that are often more important to buyers than those three characteristics. I'd have never bought several of the vehicles that I've purchased if I went mainly by safety, reliability, and value. But that doesn't mean that Consumer Reports is biased. The most amusing claims of bias are when people get upset about their surveys which ask owners of the product to rate the product that they've purchased. Whether it's vehicles or wireless service, there's no reason to believe that the owner or user of one product or service is more or less likely to lie about their experience with the product or service than the owner of a different product or service.
From: Mike Hunter on 24 Nov 2009 13:50
One opinions are like ones a$$#ole, everyone has one and they all stink. ;) "SMS" <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote in message news:4b0c0ac2$0$1600$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net... > Ed Pawlowski wrote: >> "SMS" <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote in message >>> Because there's never been even the slightest bit of bias shown in >>> Consumer Reports' reviews. These complaints have always been sour >>> grapes. >> >> How about other products? What CR calls a design defect, I've often >> called a good feature. Their expectations differ too much from mine to >> be regarded as meaningful. > > Consumer Reports values safety, reliability, and value. It's true that > there are other aspects of vehicles (and other products) that are often > more important to buyers than those three characteristics. I'd have never > bought several of the vehicles that I've purchased if I went mainly by > safety, reliability, and value. But that doesn't mean that Consumer > Reports is biased. > > The most amusing claims of bias are when people get upset about their > surveys which ask owners of the product to rate the product that they've > purchased. Whether it's vehicles or wireless service, there's no reason to > believe that the owner or user of one product or service is more or less > likely to lie about their experience with the product or service than the > owner of a different product or service. |