Bias Against Domestic Cars
in [Toyota]
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From: SMS on 25 Nov 2009 11:03 C. E. White wrote: > Of course there are reasons, one is that the survey is faulty, another > is that the CR survey is basically an opinion poll, not a data > collection exercise. Clearly you've never seen one of the CR surveys if you think it's an opinion poll.
From: SMS on 25 Nov 2009 11:05 hls wrote: <snip> > Might it also be that these types of vehicles, although similar, are not > identical, > and that they might actually be viewed differently by the buyer? > Dealership > handling of problems and warranty issues can certainly have a major > impact on > the degree of satisfaction one might have with the unit. It's those things, plus it's the type of buyer that buys say a Corolla verus a Prizm, and how they take care of the vehicle. Toyota buyers tend to me more highly educated, higher income, and more likely to follow the maintenance schedule, which would result in fewer Corolla problems.
From: Mike Hunter on 25 Nov 2009 12:30 You are correct for change, dr_jeff. Large fleets are NOT the same as regular people. Large fleet operators do a far better job of maintaining the huge investment they have in the TOOLS used in their business. In the case of vehicles, fleet vehicles are one of their best maintained tools because federal corporate tax desperation laws require they be deprecated over five years or 300,000 mile, WOF. On the other hand the average new vehicle buyer replaces that vehicle with another new vehicle in three to four years with 45,000 to 60,000 miles on the odometer "dr_jeff" <utz(a)msu.edu> wrote in message news:p66dnQdIPO_BBZHWnZ2dnUVZ_vBi4p2d(a)giganews.com... > Derek Gee wrote: >> "dr_jeff" <utz(a)msu.edu> wrote in message >> news:9LGdndOqH8dGlZfWnZ2dnUVZ_rZi4p2d(a)giganews.com... >>> Derek Gee wrote: >>>> "Ed Pawlowski" <esp(a)snet.net> wrote in message >>>> news:nIGdnRSpQL__s5TWnZ2dnUVZ_sadnZ2d(a)giganews.com... >>>>> "Derek Gee" <dgeeSPAMSUCKS(a)twmi.INVALID.rr.com> wrote in message >>>>>> I tend to believe the Power survey due to the better methodology, >>>>>> plus I have two first hand owner reports of failures (disabled) of >>>>>> Scion models. >>>>> The problem with Powers is they rate "initial quality" I happen to >>>>> own a car rated very high by them for initial quality and they were >>>>> correct; I was very pleased with it for a while. Just about the time >>>>> the warranty ran out (at 18 months I had 36000 miles) the car started >>>>> to deteriorate and has been falling apart ever since. Lots of little >>>>> things like switches that don't work as well as big things like the >>>>> transmission. Initial quality does not equal durability. >>>> No, Powers has TWO different studies, the IQS (Initial Quality Study), >>>> and VDS (Vehicle Dependability Study). I pretty much ignore all of the >>>> IQS surveys as most of the automakers are within a couple of defects >>>> per 100 vehicles of each other. It's the VDS that's the important one. >>>> Here's a link to the 2009 study, go check it out... >>>> >>>> http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pdf/2009043.pdf >>>> >>>> Derek >>> But this is still a survey, with the limitations of a survey. >>> >>> Plus, the study was with cars that were about 2 or 3 years old (2006 >>> model year study done in Oct. 2008). It doesn't say how well cars hold >>> up after this period. What would be a far better study would be a study >>> of what is actually replaced by owners during the life of the car. It >>> would be a hard study to do. >>> >>> Jeff >> >> Closest thing to that is dealership warranty and post-warranty info, and >> I doubt you'll get any of that. Maybe some large fleet customers might >> share info like that... >> >> Derek > > Yet the way cars and trucks in large fleets is not the same as regular > people.
From: Mike Hunter on 25 Nov 2009 12:35 Really? the Toyota buyer can't be to smart, after all they paid a lot more to buy the same car with Toyota on the grill, rather than Prizm LOL "SMS" <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote in message news:4b0d55be$0$1625$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net... > hls wrote: > > <snip> > >> Might it also be that these types of vehicles, although similar, are not >> identical, >> and that they might actually be viewed differently by the buyer? >> Dealership >> handling of problems and warranty issues can certainly have a major >> impact on >> the degree of satisfaction one might have with the unit. > > It's those things, plus it's the type of buyer that buys say a Corolla > verus a Prizm, and how they take care of the vehicle. Toyota buyers tend > to me more highly educated, higher income, and more likely to follow the > maintenance schedule, which would result in fewer Corolla problems.
From: Mike Hunter on 25 Nov 2009 12:39
Statistically sounds, really? Their have been at least 16,000,000 vehicles in the US for the past ten years and CR has less than 400,000 subscribers...........well you do the math LOL "SMS" <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote in message news:4b0d5518$0$1625$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net... > C. E. White wrote: > >> Sure they are, you even said so, just in different words - "Consumer >> Reports values safety, reliability, and value." > > No, they're not biased because they evaluate all of the vehicles to the > same set of standards. > >> I am not saying that anyone is lying about there responses. I am arguing >> that the sample group is not statistically sounds and that it is likely >> that the people who respond to the surveys are likely to parrot the CR >> opinons. This is not lying, it is human nature at work. > > The sample size is very large. The questions on the surveys are very > specific, asking about problems that the owner has had with the vehicle. > They aren't general touchy-feely questions where the owner has the > opportunity to parrot CR's evaluations and recommendations. The surveys > about reliability and the articles evaluating the products are two very > different animals. |