Bias Against Domestic Cars
in [Toyota]
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From: SMS on 22 Nov 2009 10:12 larry moe 'n curly wrote: > > C. E. White wrote: >> I came across what I consider another case of bias against domesic >> vehicles. See: >> >> http://www.forbes.com/2009/11/11/clunker-cars-repairs-lifestyle-vehicles-clunkers_slide_2.html >> >> Supposedly the Forbes editiors picked these vehicle based on COnsumer >> Reports data. I looked up the CR data and here are my comments: > > So why hasn't CR shown any bias when they've tested American and > Japanese twins, like the Toyota Matrix and Pontiac Vibe or the Toyota > Corolla and Geo Prizm? Because there's never been even the slightest bit of bias shown in Consumer Reports' reviews. These complaints have always been sour grapes.
From: Ed Pawlowski on 22 Nov 2009 07:21 "SMS" <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote in message > > Because there's never been even the slightest bit of bias shown in > Consumer Reports' reviews. These complaints have always been sour grapes. How about other products? What CR calls a design defect, I've often called a good feature. Their expectations differ too much from mine to be regarded as meaningful.
From: Ed Pawlowski on 22 Nov 2009 07:27 "Derek Gee" <dgeeSPAMSUCKS(a)twmi.INVALID.rr.com> wrote in message > > I tend to believe the Power survey due to the better methodology, plus I > have two first hand owner reports of failures (disabled) of Scion models. The problem with Powers is they rate "initial quality" I happen to own a car rated very high by them for initial quality and they were correct; I was very pleased with it for a while. Just about the time the warranty ran out (at 18 months I had 36000 miles) the car started to deteriorate and has been falling apart ever since. Lots of little things like switches that don't work as well as big things like the transmission. Initial quality does not equal durability.
From: Mike Hunter on 22 Nov 2009 09:23 I had no idea a year of statistics was required for one to earn an MD certificate, curious. "Derek Gee" <dgeeSPAMSUCKS(a)twmi.INVALID.rr.com> wrote in message news:4b08ad8c$0$4871$9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com... > "dr_jeff" <utz(a)msu.edu> wrote in message > news:ptKdnRH_9eYyYZjWnZ2dnUVZ_v5i4p2d(a)giganews.com... >> Derek Gee wrote: >>> "dr_jeff" <utz(a)msu.edu> wrote in message >>> news:JOKdnUJqm4PvM5nWnZ2dnUVZ_t9i4p2d(a)giganews.com... >>>> Derek Gee wrote: >>>>> "larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencurly(a)my-deja.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:f152deef-37b4-4a7e-85d7-5f85bd895e61(a)m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com... >>>>>> Derek Gee wrote: >>>>>>> "Andrew Rossmann" <andysnewsreply(a)no_junk.comcast.net> wrote in >>>>>>> message >>>>>>> news:MPG.256cdade1ef3a1b9896cc(a)news.eternal-september.org... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> CR only reports what their annual survey says. If there is any >>>>>>>> bias, >>>>>>>> it's in the subscribers. >>>>>>> There's always bias in humans, but a better survey would do a better >>>>>>> job in >>>>>>> trying to design it out of the polling. The JD Power data seems >>>>>>> better >>>>>>> quality. >>>>>> JD Powers is worse and has shown more bias in favor of luxury cars >>>>>> and >>>>>> cars favored by senior citizens, whether or not those vehicles were >>>>>> reliable (Lincoln) or not (Jaguar before Ford bought them). >>>>> Not so. They have a much more accurate survey questionaire than the >>>>> CR one. >>>> How is the JD Power survey more accurate? Has there been a study on >>>> this? It may look better on paper, but it may not better in real life. >>> >>> From what I've been able to gather about the IQS and VDS surveys, it's a >>> 44 point questionaire with specific questions about stuff like handling, >>> braking, seats, audio systems etc. It's better than just asking which >>> areas did you have a "problem" with and asking the user to check a >>> single box. >>> >>> Here's some very specific criticism of the CR methodology I recently ran >>> across: >>> >>> http://www.truedelta.com/pieces/shortcomings.php >>> >>> http://www.truedelta.com/pieces/cr_survey.php >>> >>> http://www.truedelta.com/pieces/newdots.php >>> >>> http://www.truedelta.com/pieces/anomalies.php >>> >>> >>> >>> Derek >>> >>> >> >> The website is a competitor to CR for car data. How reliable do you think >> its criticisms are? > > Valid enough. I took a year of statistics in college. The True Delta guy > is explaining how he plans to avoid those issues with his site. From what > I've seen of his site (because I checked it out after reading those > pages), his sample sizes are still too small for my liking. > > Derek >
From: dr_jeff on 22 Nov 2009 09:36
Mike Hunter wrote: > I had no idea a year of statistics was required for one to earn an MD > certificate, curious. I took a semester of statistics as part of my college work. In addition, statistics was part of my medical school education in epidemiology and part of my residency curriculum. How else do you expect doctors to be able to understand the statistics in research articles is we don't learn it during medical school and residency? However, I did not know Derek was an MD, too. Interesting. (You responded to Derek's message, not mine.) Jeff > "Derek Gee" <dgeeSPAMSUCKS(a)twmi.INVALID.rr.com> wrote in message > news:4b08ad8c$0$4871$9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com... >> "dr_jeff" <utz(a)msu.edu> wrote in message >> news:ptKdnRH_9eYyYZjWnZ2dnUVZ_v5i4p2d(a)giganews.com... >>> Derek Gee wrote: >>>> "dr_jeff" <utz(a)msu.edu> wrote in message >>>> news:JOKdnUJqm4PvM5nWnZ2dnUVZ_t9i4p2d(a)giganews.com... >>>>> Derek Gee wrote: >>>>>> "larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencurly(a)my-deja.com> wrote in message >>>>>> news:f152deef-37b4-4a7e-85d7-5f85bd895e61(a)m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com... >>>>>>> Derek Gee wrote: >>>>>>>> "Andrew Rossmann" <andysnewsreply(a)no_junk.comcast.net> wrote in >>>>>>>> message >>>>>>>> news:MPG.256cdade1ef3a1b9896cc(a)news.eternal-september.org... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> CR only reports what their annual survey says. If there is any >>>>>>>>> bias, >>>>>>>>> it's in the subscribers. >>>>>>>> There's always bias in humans, but a better survey would do a better >>>>>>>> job in >>>>>>>> trying to design it out of the polling. The JD Power data seems >>>>>>>> better >>>>>>>> quality. >>>>>>> JD Powers is worse and has shown more bias in favor of luxury cars >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> cars favored by senior citizens, whether or not those vehicles were >>>>>>> reliable (Lincoln) or not (Jaguar before Ford bought them). >>>>>> Not so. They have a much more accurate survey questionaire than the >>>>>> CR one. >>>>> How is the JD Power survey more accurate? Has there been a study on >>>>> this? It may look better on paper, but it may not better in real life. >>>> From what I've been able to gather about the IQS and VDS surveys, it's a >>>> 44 point questionaire with specific questions about stuff like handling, >>>> braking, seats, audio systems etc. It's better than just asking which >>>> areas did you have a "problem" with and asking the user to check a >>>> single box. >>>> >>>> Here's some very specific criticism of the CR methodology I recently ran >>>> across: >>>> >>>> http://www.truedelta.com/pieces/shortcomings.php >>>> >>>> http://www.truedelta.com/pieces/cr_survey.php >>>> >>>> http://www.truedelta.com/pieces/newdots.php >>>> >>>> http://www.truedelta.com/pieces/anomalies.php >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Derek >>>> >>>> >>> The website is a competitor to CR for car data. How reliable do you think >>> its criticisms are? >> Valid enough. I took a year of statistics in college. The True Delta guy >> is explaining how he plans to avoid those issues with his site. From what >> I've seen of his site (because I checked it out after reading those >> pages), his sample sizes are still too small for my liking. >> >> Derek >> > > |