Bias Against Domestic Cars
in [Toyota]
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From: Mike Hunter on 18 Nov 2009 13:07 You mean like the Tundra today? I stopped buying CR back in the seventy when they said the small FWD Dodge Omni was a better car than the small Plymouth. The only difference was the grill. LOL "larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencurly(a)my-deja.com> wrote in message news:b6afc10e-9469-434a-8153-d6c3743c22d4(a)e4g2000prn.googlegroups.com... > > > Mike Hunter wrote: >> >> "larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencurly(a)my-deja.com> wrote in message >> news:c71fcfc7-ae26-43ee-845f-9678880ecd80(a)2g2000prl.googlegroups.com... >> >>> So why hasn't CR shown any bias when they've tested American and >>> Japanese twins, like the Toyota Matrix and Pontiac Vibe or the Toyota >>> Corolla and Geo Prizm? >>> >> Seems to me CR would have better served its subscribe if it had informed >> them they could save a lot of money by purchasing the domestic version of >> those vehicles rather than the Jap twin. > > It seems that you're drunk and senile again, Foghorn, because the > links show that CR has done exactly that. They actually favor > American brands when they're competitive with foreign ones, as > demonstrated by their gushing over the pretty good but not best Ford > Fusion, and back when Toyota's T100 pickup was introduced in the US, > the cover of CR headlined, "Ford Beats Toyota" (but the T-100 was > pretty bad compared to the Ford). >
From: clare on 18 Nov 2009 21:06 On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 22:28:30 -0500, "Derek Gee" <dgeeSPAMSUCKS(a)twmi.INVALID.rr.com> wrote: >"hls" <hls(a)nospam.nix> wrote in message >news:AtudnXjE59f1uZ7WnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d(a)giganews.com... >> >> "Derek Gee" <dgeeSPAMSUCKS(a)twmi.INVALID.rr.com> wrote in message >>> >>> They have. Look back through the archives at their ratings for the Ford >>> Probe and Mazda 626. They were built in the same US plant, using largely >>> the same parts, yet the Mazda was always given the higher reliability >>> rating. This was one of the first clues that I had that something was >>> wrong at CR. >>> >>> Derek >> >> Just a point...."largely the same parts" may not be the same as equivalent >> vehicles. > >The only differences were the outer skins. They were the same platform >underneath. > >> I am not defending CR.. I have held them up to doubt many times on other >> types >> of products, where they clearly had no idea what they were talking about. > >I've always worried about a company that reviews toasters rating >sophisticated devices, particularly consumer electronics and automobiles. >But they do have the advantage of being advertisement free... > >Derek > The same "platform" does not mean the same floorpan, or even necessarily the same wheelbase or track. It means it shares a "layout".
From: Derek Gee on 18 Nov 2009 21:07 "larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencurly(a)my-deja.com> wrote in message news:f152deef-37b4-4a7e-85d7-5f85bd895e61(a)m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com... > > > Derek Gee wrote: >> "Andrew Rossmann" <andysnewsreply(a)no_junk.comcast.net> wrote in message >> news:MPG.256cdade1ef3a1b9896cc(a)news.eternal-september.org... >> >> > CR only reports what their annual survey says. If there is any bias, >> > it's in the subscribers. >> >> There's always bias in humans, but a better survey would do a better job >> in >> trying to design it out of the polling. The JD Power data seems better >> quality. > > JD Powers is worse and has shown more bias in favor of luxury cars and > cars favored by senior citizens, whether or not those vehicles were > reliable (Lincoln) or not (Jaguar before Ford bought them). Not so. They have a much more accurate survey questionaire than the CR one. >> > Also, don't forget that the quality of the dealership can go a long way >> > toward how 'reliable' you think your car is. > > Then I'd expect luxury car brands to fare better because of their > dealerships, so why have Cadlllac and Rolls-Royce long fared so poorly > in reliability ratings? Where have you seen any published reliability data on RR? They aren't in any published survey I've ever seen. >And Toyota's brand with the highest > reliability is budget Scion, not luxury Lexus. Wrong, Scion is WAY below industry average in the 2009 JD Power Dependability study! http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pdf/2009043.pdf Derek
From: Derek Gee on 18 Nov 2009 21:20 "larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencurly(a)my-deja.com> wrote in message news:d1ac9580-a06c-4691-86f9-302ae1f854c9(a)u25g2000prh.googlegroups.com... > > > Derek Gee wrote: >> "larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencurly(a)my-deja.com> wrote in message >> news:c71fcfc7-ae26-43ee-845f-9678880ecd80(a)2g2000prl.googlegroups.com... >> >> > So why hasn't CR shown any bias when they've tested American and >> > Japanese twins, like the Toyota Matrix and Pontiac Vibe or the Toyota >> > Corolla and Geo Prizm? >> >> They have. Look back through the archives at their ratings for the Ford >> Probe and Mazda 626. They were built in the same US plant, using largely >> the same parts, yet the Mazda was always given the higher reliability >> rating. This was one of the first clues that I had that something was >> wrong >> at CR. > > Please explain. Here are the reliability ratings of the 626 and > Probe: > > http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2580/4114348350_3d1e3833c8_o.jpg What do you mean please explain? Can't you read? Look at the '89 4-cylinders for instance. The Ford's have extra black dots (or other lower ratings) the Mazda 626 doesn't. (Cooling, electrical, A/C, clutch, integrity, paint-trim) Why is the Ford version rated worse? They were made in the same plant with the same platform parts. CR did rate the Mazda auto-trans worse, which is also wrong, being the same unit as the Ford. Derek
From: dr_jeff on 18 Nov 2009 21:33
Derek Gee wrote: > "larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencurly(a)my-deja.com> wrote in message > news:f152deef-37b4-4a7e-85d7-5f85bd895e61(a)m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com... >> >> Derek Gee wrote: >>> "Andrew Rossmann" <andysnewsreply(a)no_junk.comcast.net> wrote in message >>> news:MPG.256cdade1ef3a1b9896cc(a)news.eternal-september.org... >>> >>>> CR only reports what their annual survey says. If there is any bias, >>>> it's in the subscribers. >>> There's always bias in humans, but a better survey would do a better job >>> in >>> trying to design it out of the polling. The JD Power data seems better >>> quality. >> JD Powers is worse and has shown more bias in favor of luxury cars and >> cars favored by senior citizens, whether or not those vehicles were >> reliable (Lincoln) or not (Jaguar before Ford bought them). > > Not so. They have a much more accurate survey questionaire than the CR one. How is the JD Power survey more accurate? Has there been a study on this? It may look better on paper, but it may not better in real life. Jeff |