Bias Against Domestic Cars
in [Toyota]
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From: George Orwell on 19 Nov 2009 08:01 Consumer Reports is indeed biased. In the 70+ years of its existence, it has tested just about every conceivable products except guns. Sure guns are tested, evaluated and reported on by enthusiast magazines & American Rifleman, but those are hardly unbiased sources of information. CU does not test guns because they do not like them, period. Despite this fact, they would do the public a favor to report on guns. They are a household item in 30 to 40% of homes, so it is irrational of CU to ignore this product. CU should at least bring to light the relative inherent safety of revolvers compared to the hazard of the pistol. In particular, the danger of the original Berreta 9 which lacked a magazine safety, leading to the deaths of several children who played with loaded pistols. Avoid pistols and urge your local police department to make revolvers required for sworn officers so they will not accidentally shoot arrestees by accident as frequently happens when they carry pistols. Also, pistols "jam" and revolvers never do not to mention pistols have bad triggers and are inaccurate. Believe you me, these are factual statements. Guns have done more to keep us safe in our homes than all the police forces. And without being fired. Criminals know guns are in a lot of homes, but they don't know which homes. So they leave homes alone. This is not the case in foreign countries that ban citizens from keeping guns. Likewise, in right to concealed carry states, street crime is reduced for the same reason. Guns make for a polite society. Il mittente di questo messaggio|The sender address of this non corrisponde ad un utente |message is not related to a real reale ma all'indirizzo fittizio|person but to a fake address of an di un sistema anonimizzatore |anonymous system Per maggiori informazioni |For more info https://www.mixmaster.it
From: larry moe 'n curly on 20 Nov 2009 00:58 Mike Hunter wrote: > > "larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencurly(a)my-deja.com> wrote in message > news:c71fcfc7-ae26-43ee-845f-9678880ecd80(a)2g2000prl.googlegroups.com... > >> So why hasn't CR shown any bias when they've tested American and >> Japanese twins, like the Toyota Matrix and Pontiac Vibe or the Toyota >> Corolla and Geo Prizm? > > Seems to me CR would have better served its subscribe if it had informed > them they could save a lot of money by purchasing the domestic version of > those vehicles rather than the Jap twin. > > > It seems that you're drunk and senile again, Foghorn, because the > > links show that CR has done exactly that. They actually favor > > American brands when they're competitive with foreign ones, as > > demonstrated by their gushing over the pretty good but not best Ford > > Fusion, and back when Toyota's T100 pickup was introduced in the US, > > the cover of CR headlined, "Ford Beats Toyota" (but the T-100 was > > pretty bad compared to the Ford). > You mean like the Tundra today? What's your point? CR dropped the Toyota Tundra from its list of recommended vehicles when their survey showed that it had inferior reliability. > I stopped buying CR back in the seventy when they said the small > FWD Dodge Omni was a better car than the small Plymouth. > The only difference was the grill. LOL Cite the issue, or post the reviews, as I've done for other vehicles. The first-year Dodge Omni and its twin, the Plymouth Horizon, were both rated something like "not recommended" by CR because of poor handling. OTOH some time in the 1990s, CR preferred the GM Geo Prizm over its near twin, the Toyota Corolla, because the Corolla had inferior handling due to a missing stabilizer bar that the Prizm possessed.
From: larry moe 'n curly on 20 Nov 2009 01:42 Derek Gee wrote: > "larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencurly(a)my-deja.com> wrote in message > news:f152deef-37b4-4a7e-85d7-5f85bd895e61(a)m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com... > > There's always bias in humans, but a better survey would do a better job > in trying to design it out of the polling. The JD Power data seems better > quality. > > > JD Powers is worse and has shown more bias in favor of luxury cars and > > cars favored by senior citizens, whether or not those vehicles were > > reliable (Lincoln) or not (Jaguar before Ford bought them). > > Not so. They have a much more accurate survey questionaire than the CR one. Show me. I've gotten the CR survey a couple of times, and it basically asked if I had any problems in the past year in any of the areas listed in their car reliability survey tables. What does JD Powers ask? A Mar. 2004 US News magazine article said they lump too many aspects of the cars together: "One gripe: In the new car quality survey, a car's basic attributes, gas mileage, and the placement of cup holders, for example, are lumped in with problems like rattles, buzzes, and broken equipment." And the fact that JD Powers has rated Cadillac and pre-Ford Jaguar high in reliability proves that something's been seriously wrong with their surveys. > Also, don't forget that the quality of the dealership can go a long way > toward how 'reliable' you think your car is. > > > Then I'd expect luxury car brands to fare better because of their > > dealerships, so why have Cadlllac and Rolls-Royce long fared so poorly > > in reliability ratings? > > Where have you seen any published reliability data on RR? They aren't in > any published survey I've ever seen. RR is pretty famous for bad quality, and I even heard an owner complain about his to my boss. Name a British car that isn't unreliable. And how do you explain Jaguar's high ranking in the Powers' surveys? You know Jaguar, the brand so bad that when Ford took over the company, one of its ads touted a brand-new wiring harness? Then there's the Powers' quality award given to the horrible cable TV company here. Really, you need to demonstrate that Powers has any credibility at all, especially when their sources of revenue are a mystery or could be from the very industries whose products and services they rank. > > And Toyota's brand with the highest reliability is budget Scion, not luxury Lexus. > > Wrong, Scion is WAY below industry average in the 2009 JD Power > Dependability study! > http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pdf/2009043.pdf Wrong, Scion is WAY above industry average in the more trustworthy, non-sellout 2009 Consumer Reports reliability survey: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2557/4118564115_3013ca4784_o.gif Why shouldn't Scion score high when they have only three models, two of them based on the Toyota Yaris, which is rated high in reliability (Yet Consumer Reports doesn't recommend it because it scores too poorly in performance).
From: larry moe 'n curly on 20 Nov 2009 01:55 Mike Hunter wrote: > > One thing is for certain, ones sees a lot of Scions sitting on the used car > lots of other brand dealership. Apparently the previous owner chose not to > buy another Scion, for some reason. I don't see many Scions on used car lots; mostly I see the biggest selling models and budget models, the latter probably because their buyers were less affluent and therefore more vulnerable to economic problems, higher cost loans, or financial carelessness. It's possible Scion is in that catagory, especially because it's marketed toward youts (youthhhs). And I believe Saturn's customers went from higher than average affluence for their age in the 1990s to lower than average, and in the past few years Saturns have had one of the highest repossession rates for all brands.
From: larry moe 'n curly on 20 Nov 2009 02:28
C. E. White wrote: > > "Andrew Rossmann" <andysnewsreply(a)no_junk.comcast.net> wrote in > message news:MPG.256cdade1ef3a1b9896cc(a)news.eternal-september.org... > > > CR only reports what their annual survey says. If there is any bias, > > it's in the subscribers. > > I don't completely agree with this. The CR survey is very simplistic. > A lot of the questions depend on the responder making value > judgements. These judgements are based on the experience / beliefs / > opinions of the reponders. I don't believe subjectivity affects the reliability ratings much because CR also asks owners if they'd buy the same vehicle again, and some vehicles where the owners overwhelmingly answer yes are ranked among the least reliable. IOW the very same people who love their cars admit that their cars have been troublesome, the Chevy Corvette being a prime example. |