Best no BS motor oil/filter comparison?
in [Toyota]
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From: larry moe 'n curly on 27 Nov 2008 06:05 C. E. White wrote: > I've never seen an oil filter with crimped metal end caps. What I have > seen is oil filters with the filter media potted into a metal end cap. > They are very secure (beleive me, I've tried to pull them apart - > usually a knife is required). This method is far better than the cheap > glue job Fram uses on its filters.Toyota has filters with just thin > plastic end caps, but each fold of the filter media is glued shut > along the top, which closes off the media, prevent oil from escaping > around the edges of the media. Fram doesn't do this. The media is just > lightly glued to the cardboard (aka "gasket material") end caps. I once cut open a used Fram PH2951, and it had metal end caps. I did this because I had dropped the new filter, denting it on the end, and wanted to see if anything inside could have gotten hit.
From: HLS on 27 Nov 2008 09:03 "Mark A" <someone(a)someone.com> wrote in message news:kVpXk.587 > No, I don't use Amsoil and never would. My recommendation of synthetic oil > is based on using it for 10 years and using conventional oil for 30 years. A statistical analysis of actual data would come close to proof.. I havent seen anything approaching it.
From: Mark A on 27 Nov 2008 10:22 "larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencurly(a)my-deja.com> wrote in message news:9e83883f-5a7a-46ec-aba1-6a4f585b6b9f(a)a12g2000pro.googlegroups.com... > I once cut open a used Fram PH2951, and it had metal end caps. I did > this because I had dropped the new filter, denting it on the end, and > wanted to see if anything inside could have gotten hit. Fram makes 4 different "grades" of filters, which range in price from about $3 to $11 (they also make filters for OEM use and for other companies). Trying to lump them all together as one product, would be like comparing a Chevy with a Cadillac, just because they are both made by GM. Yes, the $3 Fram filter sucks. So do all other $3 filters.
From: Mark A on 27 Nov 2008 10:56 "HLS" <nospam(a)nospam.nix> wrote in message news:YMxXk.8105$x%.1349(a)nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com... > A statistical analysis of actual data would come close to proof.. I havent > seen > anything approaching it. The only argument for not using synthetic is that it costs more (not very much, maybe about $15 more per oil change). Now people want me to conduct an "independent test using statistical analysis of actual data" and other such measures to guarantee that synthetic oil is actually beneficial. How much will that cost? Nobody seems to care about wasting money on such studies or proof. I was always skeptical of synthetic oil, but when I switched from conventional oil after my first oil change on my 98 Camry V6 XLE, I noticed a difference right away in how much easier the engine revved with my foot on the gas peddle. Please don't tell me it had anything to do with the engine being new, I noticed the difference immediately after the switch to synthetic. There are a bunch of other reasons why someone would want to use synthetic, such as the sludge problems reported on many Toyota V6 engines of that era. All race cars use synthetic oil. Many high end cars use them as factory fill (not just cars with exotic engines) and there have been studies that show that synthetic oil does reduce engine wear, although maybe not much on used NY taxis. Most engine wear occurs when the engine is not yet at operating temperature, which doesn't apply to NY taxis that are always warm relative to the miles they drive. Like many people, about half the trips I take are short distances when the engine is not fully warmed up. All of these reasons, in conjunction with my own observations of improved engine performance and very slightly better gas mileage (1%), are good enough for me. I am convinced of the benefits. But just in case I am totally and completely wrong, and have completely deluded myself in this matter, I am only out $30 per year (even if you don't count gas mileage savings). I loose that much every minute in my 401K. If I am right, then I probably have at least broken even and may have saved myself thousands of dollars. Others can do what they like. The OP asked about the best motor oil, not the cheapest. He can determine whether the best is worth the extra money. I doubt that someone would ask such a question if they had a 3 year lease on a car and intended to get a new car when the lease expires. BTW, Ray O uses synthetic oil in all three of cars, but he doesn't like to talk about that because synthetic is not specified by Toyota or Lexus for his vehicles. $30 per year? That is one meal, a couple of drinks, tip and tax at a restaurant. People need to get some perspective in their lives.
From: Vic Smith on 27 Nov 2008 11:00
On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 10:56:29 -0500, "Mark A" <someone(a)someone.com> wrote: >"HLS" <nospam(a)nospam.nix> wrote in message >news:YMxXk.8105$x%.1349(a)nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com... >> A statistical analysis of actual data would come close to proof.. I havent >> seen >> anything approaching it. > >The only argument for not using synthetic is that it costs more (not very >much, maybe about $15 more per oil change). Now people want me to conduct an >"independent test using statistical analysis of actual data" and other such >measures to guarantee that synthetic oil is actually beneficial. How much >will that cost? Nobody seems to care about wasting money on such studies or >proof. > >I was always skeptical of synthetic oil, but when I switched from >conventional oil after my first oil change on my 98 Camry V6 XLE, I noticed >a difference right away in how much easier the engine revved with my foot on >the gas peddle. Please don't tell me it had anything to do with the engine >being new, I noticed the difference immediately after the switch to >synthetic. > >There are a bunch of other reasons why someone would want to use synthetic, >such as the sludge problems reported on many Toyota V6 engines of that era. >All race cars use synthetic oil. Many high end cars use them as factory fill >(not just cars with exotic engines) and there have been studies that show >that synthetic oil does reduce engine wear, although maybe not much on used >NY taxis. Most engine wear occurs when the engine is not yet at operating >temperature, which doesn't apply to NY taxis that are always warm relative >to the miles they drive. Like many people, about half the trips I take are >short distances when the engine is not fully warmed up. > >All of these reasons, in conjunction with my own observations of improved >engine performance and very slightly better gas mileage (1%), are good >enough for me. I am convinced of the benefits. > >But just in case I am totally and completely wrong, and have completely >deluded myself in this matter, I am only out $30 per year (even if you don't >count gas mileage savings). I loose that much every minute in my 401K. If I >am right, then I probably have at least broken even and may have saved >myself thousands of dollars. Others can do what they like. > >The OP asked about the best motor oil, not the cheapest. He can determine >whether the best is worth the extra money. I doubt that someone would ask >such a question if they had a 3 year lease on a car and intended to get a >new car when the lease expires. > >BTW, Ray O uses synthetic oil in all three of cars, but he doesn't like to >talk about that because synthetic is not specified by Toyota or Lexus for >his vehicles. > >$30 per year? That is one meal, a couple of drinks, tip and tax at a >restaurant. People need to get some perspective in their lives. > Well said. --Vic |