Who was it who mentioned Fram oil filters and dropping oil pressure?
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From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 26 Nov 2009 00:37 On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 20:08:11 -0600, jim wrote: > The complaints are all > coming from guys on the internet with old worn out engines. Hmmm...change the filter, the oil pressure drops. On one car...ok..old worn out engine. Two cars? Well, maybe old worn out engines. Three cars? I'm beginning to see a trend here. And one of the old, worn out engines only has 139,000 miles on it, not much for a Japanese car. And records I do have show oil changes every 4,500 miles.
From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 26 Nov 2009 00:40 On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 23:03:19 -0500, clare wrote: >>Maybe yes if in fact that was the valid choice one faced. But unless you >>are one of those guys on the internet with beater who swears he would >>never use a Fram that isn't going to be the choice you're faced with. >>That business of running with no oil pressure doesn't happen to cars in >>good condition. If it did you can bet the dealerships would be deluged >>with complaints because lots late model cars have Fram filters on them >>and you can bet customers would be complaining. > > > You'd be surprized how long an engine can run with NO OIL AT ALL, > particularly with solid lifters. - but there IS damage being done. Do it > too often, and the engine WILL fail. Which also gets me. Soobs have horizontally opposed engines, with the cylinders lying flat just above the oil line. So, not all of the oil drains out of the cylinders, so when you start, they aren't totally 'dry' like an upright engine is.
From: Nate Nagel on 26 Nov 2009 07:49 jim wrote: > > Nate Nagel wrote: >> jim wrote: >>> Ed White wrote: >>>> On Nov 25, 8:33 am, "hls" <h...(a)nospam.nix> wrote: >>>>> "Nate Nagel" <njna...(a)roosters.net> wrote in message >>>>> >>>>> news:hei31712n6l(a)news7.newsguy.com... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> hls wrote: >>>>>>> "E. Meyer" <epmeye...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:C7313DDB.14358%epmeyer50(a)gmail.com... >>>>>>>> Everybody is >>>>>>>> arguing antique anecdotal evidence and apparently no one has any actual >>>>>>>> facts to contribute. For all we know from this discussion, they had one >>>>>>>> bad >>>>>>>> production run in 1994 and everybody is still talking about it. >>>>>>> You got that right! >>>>>> meanwhile Wix, Purolator, and Champion Labs have NEVER had a bad run >>>>>> significant enough to register on our collective radar screens. 'nuff >>>>>> said. >>>>>> nate >>>>> The important point, for me, was that so many people jump on this bandwagon >>>>> and there is very little or no objective data on the subject. This business >>>>> of cutting >>>>> open filters and declaring them good or no good got a lot of this started, >>>>> and it >>>>> had no relevance at all.- Hide quoted text - >>>>> >>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>> I disagree. Examining the components that make up a filter is a first >>>> step. You might not be able to determine the actual quality of the >>>> filter material, but you certianly can see a major difference in >>>> quality between a regular grade FRAM filter and a WIX or Motorcraft >>>> filter. I've cut open numerous used filter and more than once I've >>>> seen FRAMs with detached end caps. The regular grade FRAM filter may >>>> be adequate for the job, but a look at the insides of regular grade >>>> FROM filters convined me that they are not as good as filters from >>>> Motorcraft or Wix that have comparable (or even lower) prices. >>> The fact is it has been scientifically proven that Fram filters do a >>> better job than Wix for removing the smallest particles from the oil. >>> That was not determined by cutting filters open but by doing tests on >>> the oil after many miles of service. And the effects of not filtering >>> the finest particles takes many years and many miles to show up. The >>> look of the filter may be important to you, but many taxi and delivery >>> services use fram filters because they are more interested in the >>> results than what the filter looks like on the inside. >>> >> So? Running with no oil pressure for >10 sec at a time is way more >> detrimental to the life of an engine than <10 micron particles. > > Maybe yes if in fact that was the valid choice one faced. But unless > you are one of those guys on the internet with beater who swears he > would never use a Fram that isn't going to be the choice you're faced > with. That business of running with no oil pressure doesn't happen to > cars in good condition. If it did you can bet the dealerships would be > deluged with complaints because lots late model cars have Fram filters > on them and you can bet customers would be complaining. > >> Taxi service may actually be a good application for Fram filters as they >> don't do many cold starts per mile compared to regular private use vehicles. > > I've never seen any evidence that cold starts are a problem. I have > seen plenty of slant sixes with Fram filters and not a single one had > that problem. If there was a problem I would think the auto makers > would be concerned about engine damage from using Fram filters. But the > automakers aren't complaining about harm to new engines. The complaints > are all coming from guys on the internet with old worn out engines. > > And what's with this cutting filters open and getting all panicked when > you see cardboard on the end of the filters? I used to have a chevy 283 > with a canister filter. Every filter I put on that engine had cardboard > on both ends of the filter. For 30 years I saw that cardboard on every > filter I put on and every one I took off and not once did it look like > that was something I should be concerned about. Seemed like pretty > sturdy design to me. You haven't seen it so it isn't a problem. So why did I see it on two different cars? Which is the sum total of my experience with slant sixes? Meaning that Frams had a 100% failure rate for me on that engine? No, they weren't "worn out beaters" (well, one *was* a beater but it had a "fresh reman" engine in it - the other was all original with 80K miles.) And what difference does it make anyway? You really mean to say that a Wix filter can heal a worn out engine to the point that it makes the oil pressure come up faster? Sounds kinda magical, but if so, I'm gonna keep using Wix for sure! nate -- replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel
From: nm5k on 26 Nov 2009 08:37 On Nov 26, 6:49 am, Nate Nagel <njna...(a)roosters.net> wrote: > > You haven't seen it so it isn't a problem. So why did I see it on two > different cars? Which is the sum total of my experience with slant > sixes? Meaning that Frams had a 100% failure rate for me on that engine? > > No, they weren't "worn out beaters" (well, one *was* a beater but it had > a "fresh reman" engine in it - the other was all original with 80K > miles.) And what difference does it make anyway? You really mean to > say that a Wix filter can heal a worn out engine to the point that it > makes the oil pressure come up faster? Sounds kinda magical, but if so, > I'm gonna keep using Wix for sure! > > nate Mine wasn't a beater either. Kinda funny that it broke in and ran perfect with no oil pressure issues at all until I tried a Fram filter. I suspect some might find it hilarious that the problem vanished once I took the Fram filter off and never returned. Dunno about you Nate, but I was born yesterday, but not last night. :/ Whether this has anything to do with the OP's problem I don't know. I'd never heard of a Fram filter causing lower run pressures. That's a new one on me, but there is no doubt at all that the anti drain valves are fairly useless. Normally, if one noticed a lower pressure by using a certain filter, I would suspect it is restrictive, usually due to being a "super" filtering model. But the orange Fram filter is not one of those. It's a stock plain jane filter. I'll be interested to hear what the pressures are when he changes to another brand filter. I forgot what he said they are running as far as pressure. In general, you usually want to see about 10 pounds of pressure for each 1000 rpm. IE: 3000 rpm, you should see at least 30 lb's oil pressure.
From: jim on 26 Nov 2009 10:16
nm5k(a)wt.net wrote: > > On Nov 26, 6:49 am, Nate Nagel <njna...(a)roosters.net> wrote: > > > > > You haven't seen it so it isn't a problem. So why did I see it on two > > different cars? Which is the sum total of my experience with slant > > sixes? Meaning that Frams had a 100% failure rate for me on that engine? > > > > No, they weren't "worn out beaters" (well, one *was* a beater but it had > > a "fresh reman" engine in it - the other was all original with 80K > > miles.) And what difference does it make anyway? You really mean to > > say that a Wix filter can heal a worn out engine to the point that it > > makes the oil pressure come up faster? Sounds kinda magical, but if so, > > I'm gonna keep using Wix for sure! > > > > nate > > Mine wasn't a beater either. Well if it was rebuilt it wasn't new and likely wasn't anywhere close to being like original. Are you talking about a slant six engine? > perfect with no oil pressure issues at all until I tried a Fram > filter. It's kinda suspicious that you can't keep your story straight. Previously you said Fram was used right after the rebuild. Now you make it sound like you used other filters and used the Fram much later. You know anyone can make up a story and tell it on usenet. -jim > I suspect some might find it hilarious that the problem vanished > once I took the Fram filter off and never returned. > Dunno about you Nate, but I was born yesterday, but not last > night. :/ > Whether this has anything to do with the OP's problem I don't > know. I'd never heard of a Fram filter causing lower run pressures. > That's a new one on me, but there is no doubt at all that the > anti drain valves are fairly useless. > Normally, if one noticed a lower pressure by using a certain filter, > I would suspect it is restrictive, usually due to being a "super" > filtering model. But the orange Fram filter is not one of those. > It's a stock plain jane filter. > I'll be interested to hear what the pressures are when he changes > to another brand filter. I forgot what he said they are running as > far as pressure. In general, you usually want to see about 10 > pounds of pressure for each 1000 rpm. IE: 3000 rpm, you should > see at least 30 lb's oil pressure. |