Who was it who mentioned Fram oil filters and dropping oil pressure?
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From: Ed White on 25 Nov 2009 09:14 On Nov 25, 8:33 am, "hls" <h...(a)nospam.nix> wrote: > "Nate Nagel" <njna...(a)roosters.net> wrote in message > > news:hei31712n6l(a)news7.newsguy.com... > > > > > > > hls wrote: > > >> "E. Meyer" <epmeye...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > >>news:C7313DDB.14358%epmeyer50(a)gmail.com... > >>> Everybody is > >>> arguing antique anecdotal evidence and apparently no one has any actual > >>> facts to contribute. For all we know from this discussion, they had one > >>> bad > >>> production run in 1994 and everybody is still talking about it. > > >> You got that right! > > > meanwhile Wix, Purolator, and Champion Labs have NEVER had a bad run > > significant enough to register on our collective radar screens. 'nuff > > said. > > > nate > > The important point, for me, was that so many people jump on this bandwagon > and there is very little or no objective data on the subject. This business > of cutting > open filters and declaring them good or no good got a lot of this started, > and it > had no relevance at all.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - I disagree. Examining the components that make up a filter is a first step. You might not be able to determine the actual quality of the filter material, but you certianly can see a major difference in quality between a regular grade FRAM filter and a WIX or Motorcraft filter. I've cut open numerous used filter and more than once I've seen FRAMs with detached end caps. The regular grade FRAM filter may be adequate for the job, but a look at the insides of regular grade FROM filters convined me that they are not as good as filters from Motorcraft or Wix that have comparable (or even lower) prices. FRAM does not claim to have particuarly good filtering efficiency, and they do appear to have cut corners on the interior construction. So in my mind the question is not if FRAM filters are OK, the question is, Given that FRAM filters are not particualrly cheap, why would I buy one? Ed
From: Nate Nagel on 25 Nov 2009 10:13 Hachiroku ハチロク wrote: > On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:02:12 -0500, Nate Nagel wrote: > >> hls wrote: >>> "E. Meyer" <epmeyer50(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >>> news:C7313DDB.14358%epmeyer50(a)gmail.com... >>>> Everybody is >>>> arguing antique anecdotal evidence and apparently no one has any actual >>>> facts to contribute. For all we know from this discussion, they had >>>> one bad >>>> production run in 1994 and everybody is still talking about it. >>> >>> You got that right! >> meanwhile Wix, Purolator, and Champion Labs have NEVER had a bad run >> significant enough to register on our collective radar screens. 'nuff >> said. >> >> nate > > We're going to try to get the Caravan into our guitar player's shop to do > the brakes, and at the same time I'm going to have him get me a Wix filter > for the Soob. It's 800 miles early, but the oil p dropped and started that > horrible clacking noise again. It's supposed to be nice Sat and Sun, so > I'll do an early oil change. > > Results posted when I do. > > Note: changing the oil does not always result in stopping the clacking... > > > *chuckle* no it does not... once upon a time I bought a BMW 535i with high miles and an exhaust leak (but near pristine body and interior) had the exhaust leak fixed and adjusted the valves (solid lifter cam) noise did not go away... spun a rod bearing a couple kilomiles later :( Actually had the engine replaced with a junkyard motor but sold the car when I moved to VA. Was a great car but the cost of rebuilding the suspension (would have needed it soon enough) and buying new wheels to replace the original metric TRX wheels was more than the car was worth nate -- replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel
From: Nate Nagel on 25 Nov 2009 10:20 hls wrote: > > "Nate Nagel" <njnagel(a)roosters.net> wrote in message > news:hei31712n6l(a)news7.newsguy.com... >> hls wrote: >>> >>> "E. Meyer" <epmeyer50(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >>> news:C7313DDB.14358%epmeyer50(a)gmail.com... >>>> Everybody is >>>> arguing antique anecdotal evidence and apparently no one has any actual >>>> facts to contribute. For all we know from this discussion, they had >>>> one bad >>>> production run in 1994 and everybody is still talking about it. >>> >>> >>> You got that right! >> >> meanwhile Wix, Purolator, and Champion Labs have NEVER had a bad run >> significant enough to register on our collective radar screens. 'nuff >> said. >> >> nate > > The important point, for me, was that so many people jump on this bandwagon > and there is very little or no objective data on the subject. This > business of cutting > open filters and declaring them good or no good got a lot of this > started, and it > had no relevance at all. My prejudice against Fram is not based on that, but on other factors. 1) Back in around 1996/1997 or so, I bought a '67 Dart. One thing I did not like about the car was that when I'd start it first thing in the morning, it would rattle and clank and the oil light would take a long time to go out. (it'd quiet down and run silky smooth as soon as the oil light went out, so it was obviously an oil pressure issue.) The first time I changed the oil, I just went to the corner FLAPS and bought whatever they offered - turned out to be a Wix filter. The filter I took off was a Fram. Ever after, whenever I started it, it'd knock once or twice and immediately run quiet, and the oil pressure light would go out almost immediately. After asking online I found that this was not uncommon. Subsequently my then-girlfriend bought a '69 Valiant with the same engine and it exhibited the same symptoms and responded to the same fix. 2) Lots of anecdotal reports of Frams failing at the crimp between the base and can on a cold start on watercooled VW engines (which use heavy oil - recommended xW40 or xW50 - and can develop 100 PSI or more on a cold start, I've seen this myself on cars equipped with an oil pressure gauge) I never experienced this myself, as by the time I got my first VW I was already soured on Fram by my slant six experiences. In fact, I ran a Canton/Mecca filter on my Scirocco because I thought I was going to keep that car forever (and in retrospect, I should have.) nate -- replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel
From: jim on 25 Nov 2009 12:03 Ed White wrote: > > On Nov 25, 8:33 am, "hls" <h...(a)nospam.nix> wrote: > > "Nate Nagel" <njna...(a)roosters.net> wrote in message > > > > news:hei31712n6l(a)news7.newsguy.com... > > > > > > > > > > > > > hls wrote: > > > > >> "E. Meyer" <epmeye...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > >>news:C7313DDB.14358%epmeyer50(a)gmail.com... > > >>> Everybody is > > >>> arguing antique anecdotal evidence and apparently no one has any actual > > >>> facts to contribute. For all we know from this discussion, they had one > > >>> bad > > >>> production run in 1994 and everybody is still talking about it. > > > > >> You got that right! > > > > > meanwhile Wix, Purolator, and Champion Labs have NEVER had a bad run > > > significant enough to register on our collective radar screens. 'nuff > > > said. > > > > > nate > > > > The important point, for me, was that so many people jump on this bandwagon > > and there is very little or no objective data on the subject. This business > > of cutting > > open filters and declaring them good or no good got a lot of this started, > > and it > > had no relevance at all.- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > I disagree. Examining the components that make up a filter is a first > step. You might not be able to determine the actual quality of the > filter material, but you certianly can see a major difference in > quality between a regular grade FRAM filter and a WIX or Motorcraft > filter. I've cut open numerous used filter and more than once I've > seen FRAMs with detached end caps. The regular grade FRAM filter may > be adequate for the job, but a look at the insides of regular grade > FROM filters convined me that they are not as good as filters from > Motorcraft or Wix that have comparable (or even lower) prices. The fact is it has been scientifically proven that Fram filters do a better job than Wix for removing the smallest particles from the oil. That was not determined by cutting filters open but by doing tests on the oil after many miles of service. And the effects of not filtering the finest particles takes many years and many miles to show up. The look of the filter may be important to you, but many taxi and delivery services use fram filters because they are more interested in the results than what the filter looks like on the inside. > > FRAM does not claim to have particuarly good filtering efficiency, and > they do appear to have cut corners on the interior construction. So in > my mind the question is not if FRAM filters are OK, the question is, > Given that FRAM filters are not particualrly cheap, why would I buy > one? Because tests have shown they do remove smaller particles than wix or purolator. That can be a good thing or a bad thing. If you have an old beater that is loaded up with an accumulation of those fines plus a worn out oil pump from many years of pumping those small particles putting a Fram filter on the engine can lead to trouble. -jim
From: Nate Nagel on 25 Nov 2009 12:34
jim wrote: > > Ed White wrote: >> On Nov 25, 8:33 am, "hls" <h...(a)nospam.nix> wrote: >>> "Nate Nagel" <njna...(a)roosters.net> wrote in message >>> >>> news:hei31712n6l(a)news7.newsguy.com... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> hls wrote: >>>>> "E. Meyer" <epmeye...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:C7313DDB.14358%epmeyer50(a)gmail.com... >>>>>> Everybody is >>>>>> arguing antique anecdotal evidence and apparently no one has any actual >>>>>> facts to contribute. For all we know from this discussion, they had one >>>>>> bad >>>>>> production run in 1994 and everybody is still talking about it. >>>>> You got that right! >>>> meanwhile Wix, Purolator, and Champion Labs have NEVER had a bad run >>>> significant enough to register on our collective radar screens. 'nuff >>>> said. >>>> nate >>> The important point, for me, was that so many people jump on this bandwagon >>> and there is very little or no objective data on the subject. This business >>> of cutting >>> open filters and declaring them good or no good got a lot of this started, >>> and it >>> had no relevance at all.- Hide quoted text - >>> >>> - Show quoted text - >> I disagree. Examining the components that make up a filter is a first >> step. You might not be able to determine the actual quality of the >> filter material, but you certianly can see a major difference in >> quality between a regular grade FRAM filter and a WIX or Motorcraft >> filter. I've cut open numerous used filter and more than once I've >> seen FRAMs with detached end caps. The regular grade FRAM filter may >> be adequate for the job, but a look at the insides of regular grade >> FROM filters convined me that they are not as good as filters from >> Motorcraft or Wix that have comparable (or even lower) prices. > > The fact is it has been scientifically proven that Fram filters do a > better job than Wix for removing the smallest particles from the oil. > That was not determined by cutting filters open but by doing tests on > the oil after many miles of service. And the effects of not filtering > the finest particles takes many years and many miles to show up. The > look of the filter may be important to you, but many taxi and delivery > services use fram filters because they are more interested in the > results than what the filter looks like on the inside. > So? Running with no oil pressure for >10 sec at a time is way more detrimental to the life of an engine than <10 micron particles. Taxi service may actually be a good application for Fram filters as they don't do many cold starts per mile compared to regular private use vehicles. nate -- replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel |