Who was it who mentioned Fram oil filters and dropping oil pressure?
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From: hls on 25 Nov 2009 19:38 "Nate Nagel" <njnagel(a)roosters.net> wrote in message news:hejhro02lgq(a)news1.newsguy.com... > hls wrote: >> >> "Nate Nagel" <njnagel(a)roosters.net> wrote in message >> news:hei31712n6l(a)news7.newsguy.com... >>> hls wrote: >>>> >>>> "E. Meyer" <epmeyer50(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >>>> news:C7313DDB.14358%epmeyer50(a)gmail.com... >>>>> Everybody is >>>>> arguing antique anecdotal evidence and apparently no one has any >>>>> actual >>>>> facts to contribute. For all we know from this discussion, they had >>>>> one bad >>>>> production run in 1994 and everybody is still talking about it. >>>> >>>> >>>> You got that right! >>> >>> meanwhile Wix, Purolator, and Champion Labs have NEVER had a bad run >>> significant enough to register on our collective radar screens. 'nuff >>> said. >>> >>> nate >> >> The important point, for me, was that so many people jump on this >> bandwagon >> and there is very little or no objective data on the subject. This >> business of cutting >> open filters and declaring them good or no good got a lot of this >> started, and it >> had no relevance at all. > > My prejudice against Fram is not based on that, but on other factors. > > 1) Back in around 1996/1997 or so, I bought a '67 Dart. One thing I did > not like about the car was that when I'd start it first thing in the > morning, it would rattle and clank and the oil light would take a long > time to go out. (it'd quiet down and run silky smooth as soon as the oil > light went out, so it was obviously an oil pressure issue.) The first > time I changed the oil, I just went to the corner FLAPS and bought > whatever they offered - turned out to be a Wix filter. The filter I took > off was a Fram. Ever after, whenever I started it, it'd knock once or > twice and immediately run quiet, and the oil pressure light would go out > almost immediately. After asking online I found that this was not > uncommon. Subsequently my then-girlfriend bought a '69 Valiant with the > same engine and it exhibited the same symptoms and responded to the same > fix. I understand your personal feelings about Fram. I dont use them either anymore, but have never had one fail on me. (I prefer not to swim upstream on matters like this). I am talking strictly about hard data, and there is little or none available on filters in general. I am sure the data exists, but extracting it is like pulling teeth. > 2) Lots of anecdotal reports of Frams failing at the crimp between the > base and can on a cold start Yeah, Ive heard this sort of anecdotal story before, but I have never experienced it, nor do I know anyone who has. It could be true....or not.
From: jim on 25 Nov 2009 21:08 Nate Nagel wrote: > > jim wrote: > > > > Ed White wrote: > >> On Nov 25, 8:33 am, "hls" <h...(a)nospam.nix> wrote: > >>> "Nate Nagel" <njna...(a)roosters.net> wrote in message > >>> > >>> news:hei31712n6l(a)news7.newsguy.com... > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> hls wrote: > >>>>> "E. Meyer" <epmeye...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > >>>>> news:C7313DDB.14358%epmeyer50(a)gmail.com... > >>>>>> Everybody is > >>>>>> arguing antique anecdotal evidence and apparently no one has any actual > >>>>>> facts to contribute. For all we know from this discussion, they had one > >>>>>> bad > >>>>>> production run in 1994 and everybody is still talking about it. > >>>>> You got that right! > >>>> meanwhile Wix, Purolator, and Champion Labs have NEVER had a bad run > >>>> significant enough to register on our collective radar screens. 'nuff > >>>> said. > >>>> nate > >>> The important point, for me, was that so many people jump on this bandwagon > >>> and there is very little or no objective data on the subject. This business > >>> of cutting > >>> open filters and declaring them good or no good got a lot of this started, > >>> and it > >>> had no relevance at all.- Hide quoted text - > >>> > >>> - Show quoted text - > >> I disagree. Examining the components that make up a filter is a first > >> step. You might not be able to determine the actual quality of the > >> filter material, but you certianly can see a major difference in > >> quality between a regular grade FRAM filter and a WIX or Motorcraft > >> filter. I've cut open numerous used filter and more than once I've > >> seen FRAMs with detached end caps. The regular grade FRAM filter may > >> be adequate for the job, but a look at the insides of regular grade > >> FROM filters convined me that they are not as good as filters from > >> Motorcraft or Wix that have comparable (or even lower) prices. > > > > The fact is it has been scientifically proven that Fram filters do a > > better job than Wix for removing the smallest particles from the oil. > > That was not determined by cutting filters open but by doing tests on > > the oil after many miles of service. And the effects of not filtering > > the finest particles takes many years and many miles to show up. The > > look of the filter may be important to you, but many taxi and delivery > > services use fram filters because they are more interested in the > > results than what the filter looks like on the inside. > > > > So? Running with no oil pressure for >10 sec at a time is way more > detrimental to the life of an engine than <10 micron particles. Maybe yes if in fact that was the valid choice one faced. But unless you are one of those guys on the internet with beater who swears he would never use a Fram that isn't going to be the choice you're faced with. That business of running with no oil pressure doesn't happen to cars in good condition. If it did you can bet the dealerships would be deluged with complaints because lots late model cars have Fram filters on them and you can bet customers would be complaining. > Taxi service may actually be a good application for Fram filters as they > don't do many cold starts per mile compared to regular private use vehicles. I've never seen any evidence that cold starts are a problem. I have seen plenty of slant sixes with Fram filters and not a single one had that problem. If there was a problem I would think the auto makers would be concerned about engine damage from using Fram filters. But the automakers aren't complaining about harm to new engines. The complaints are all coming from guys on the internet with old worn out engines. And what's with this cutting filters open and getting all panicked when you see cardboard on the end of the filters? I used to have a chevy 283 with a canister filter. Every filter I put on that engine had cardboard on both ends of the filter. For 30 years I saw that cardboard on every filter I put on and every one I took off and not once did it look like that was something I should be concerned about. Seemed like pretty sturdy design to me. -jim > > nate > > -- > replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. > http://members.cox.net/njnagel
From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 25 Nov 2009 21:53 On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:43:54 -0500, clare wrote: > On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:27:36 -0500, Hachiroku ???? <Trueno(a)e86.GTS> wrote: > >>On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:16:16 -0500, clare wrote: >> >>> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:58:15 -0600, "hls" <hls(a)nospam.nix> wrote: >>> >>> >>>>"E. Meyer" <epmeyer50(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >>>>news:C7313DDB.14358%epmeyer50(a)gmail.com... >>>>> Everybody is >>>>> arguing antique anecdotal evidence and apparently no one has any >>>>> actual facts to contribute. For all we know from this discussion, >>>>> they had one bad >>>>> production run in 1994 and everybody is still talking about it. >>>> >>>> >>>>You got that right! >>> Been a lot more than one "bad run", both before and after 1994. >>> >>> Fram plant (allied signal) in Canada was about 35 miles from here and >>> an aquaintance several years back used to work there. >>> >>> He jumped ship to Kralinator IIRC, have lost contact with him since >> >>Oh, yeah. You're Canadian eh. Did you once say you're near Kitchener? >> >> > In Waterloo actually - can't tell the difference driving through. Home of > the Blackberry. Stratford is just down the road - home of Fram/Allied > Signal Canadian operations (and Kralinator too) Right next to Cambridge, > home of the Corolla and a hop skip and a jump from Ingersol's CAMI plant > and Woodstock's RAV4 and Hino plants. I knew Cambridge was the home of the Corolla (and Matrix and Pontiac Vibe), but i didn't know there was a Hino plant! How long has that been there? When I was married to my wife, we used to go stay at her sister's house in Oshawa...with an upstairs balcony view of the Oshawa Assembly plant. There is a lot of the automotive industry, both the big guns, and the supplers in Ontario. At least there was until Bush 1 signed the Fair Trade Agreement. Then all the suppliers that had Canadian plants closed them up, since they didn't have to meet the Canadian 1/3 content laws anymore...
From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 25 Nov 2009 21:54 On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 07:33:53 -0600, hls wrote: >> meanwhile Wix, Purolator, and Champion Labs have NEVER had a bad run >> significant enough to register on our collective radar screens. 'nuff >> said. >> >> nate > > The important point, for me, was that so many people jump on this > bandwagon and there is very little or no objective data on the subject. > This business of cutting > open filters and declaring them good or no good got a lot of this started, > and it > had no relevance at all. LOL! Not really! Lowered oil pressure in three cars with Fram filters got this thread started!
From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 25 Nov 2009 21:59
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 11:03:30 -0600, jim wrote: > That can be a good thing or a bad thing. If you have an old > beater that is loaded up with an accumulation of those fines plus a worn > out oil pump from many years of pumping those small particles putting a > Fram filter on the engine can lead to trouble. Oil pump is in fine condition. I took it off and tested it. |