Who was it who mentioned Fram oil filters and dropping oil pressure?
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From: jim on 23 Nov 2009 16:15 "Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B" wrote: > > On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:58:12 -0600, jim wrote: > > >> But in the Consumer Reports test, Fram (and Lee Maxifilter - Champion) > >> did even better and was not only top rated but also check rated, meaning > >> they did significantly better than the rest. They removed something > >> like 88% of the test particles (I think they were 20 or 25 micron > >> particles, but I don't remember if the test was single-pass or > >> multi-pass), compared to 70% or 75% for AC. The worst filter removed > >> 50%, and I think it was a depth filter. > > > > But here's the problem - a filter that works really well will also plug up > > sooner. If you put a filter that removes fine particles an old sludged > > up beater that has been accumulating fine particles in the crankcase for > > years it will plug the filter in a short amount of time (sometimes very > > short) and that will show up as low oil pressure. Even if the engine has > > not been abused If it used a filter for years that is letting the fine > > stuff through you can expect a filter that catches fine stuff to to load > > up in short order. > > > > If you notice the millions of new cars using Fram filters aren't the > > ones having problems. It is always the guys with the 30 year old beaters > > who tell of their the bad experience with the Fram filters. > > > > That is not to say Fram filters are high quality. They are cheap > > filters, but they are good enough if you change the oil often enough. > > > > -jim > > Every three thousand miles, regardless of age/condition of car... Yeah and I'm a talking dog. You change the oil every 3000k on a car you have only had for 100 miles? -jim
From: jim on 23 Nov 2009 18:09 nm5k(a)wt.net wrote: > > On Nov 23, 1:58 pm, jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@m(a)mwt,net> wrote: > > > > > If you notice the millions of new cars using Fram filters aren't the > > ones having problems. It is always the guys with the 30 year old beaters > > who tell of their the bad experience with the Fram filters. > > But I suspect not for the reason you think. A lot of the problem > is the position of the filter. And lots of older cars had the filter > mounted where it drained easily. It's not due to the condition of > the engine. Remember, I had this problem with a brand new rebuilt > engine that ran great, and it never did it again after dumping the > Fram > filter. My engine was not a beater and the oil pump was brand new. I've seen rebuilt engines that are beaters. > > > > > That is not to say Fram filters are high quality. They are cheap > > filters, but they are good enough if you change the oil often enough. > > > > -jim > > They filter ok, but like one said, who cares if the valve doesn't > work > worth a hoot, and it's a proven fact that they don't. It's not a fact and your account of one experience is hardly proof. The studies I have seen give the drain back valve on Fram a good rating. Your proof is one experience against millions. Any filter's drain back valve will leak if a piece of crud happens to prevent it from sealing. That possibility is most likely on a freshly rebuilt engine. And the drain back valve have nothing to do with the operating oil pressure, which was the topic of this thread. -jim
From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 23 Nov 2009 18:57 On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:15:16 -0600, jim wrote: >> > That is not to say Fram filters are high quality. They are cheap >> > filters, but they are good enough if you change the oil often enough. >> > >> > -jim >> >> Every three thousand miles, regardless of age/condition of car... > > Yeah and I'm a talking dog. You change the oil every 3000k on a car you > have only had for 100 miles? jim...jim beam?...oh,brother...now infecting groups other than Honda? Jesus ever let you put your finger in the holes in his hands, and your hand in his side? Once more, for the fans on the West Coast... 1988 Supra. Bought in 2004. Oil changes every 3,000 miles since I have owned it. Approaching 30,000 miles since I bought it. 1989 Subaru GL coupe. Bought in 2007. Oil changes every 3,000 miles since I have owned it. Approaching 20,000 miles since I bought it. 1989 Mazda 626. Bought in 2006. Oil changes every 3,000 miles since I have owned it. Approaching 30,000 miles since I bought it. 1985 Toyota Corolla GTS. Bought in 1986 with 10,000 miles. Oil changes every 3,000 miles. Now has 259,810 miles. (that's 86 oil changes, all done by me) Hey! 86! I like that number! 1992 Dodge Caravan. Bought 2 weeks ago. Did an oil change. Will do an oil change every 3,000 miles as long as I own it. 2005 Scion tC. Bought in 2006 with 11,000 miles. Oil changes every 4,500 miles, since I use synthetic in this car. Approaching 20,000 miles since I bought it. No, I do *NOT* analyze my oil. I just change it. Period. Every 3,000 miles. Except the Scion. End of discussion. And, I see you type as well as talk. Formidable!
From: hls on 23 Nov 2009 19:02 "larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencurly(a)my-deja.com> wrote in message news:0d3155dd-841b-4b7f-98c8-c668447bbfb6(a)s21g2000prm.googlegroups.com... > > > Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B wrote: >> Who was it in the Subaru group that mentioned my low oil pressure might >> be >> caused by my using Fram oil filters? >> >> There may be something to this. >> >> I picked up yet another 1992 Grand Something-or-other (in this case, a >> Grand Caravan. The last two were V'gers...). It has 239,000 miles on it. >> I >> got it on eBay for $150 and had to go 135 miles to pick it up. To make a >> long story short, we had to cut and crimp one of the rear brake lines to >> get the thing to move without emptying the brake cylinder, and the plan >> was to drive it within 100 miles from home and call AAA..."It blew a >> brake >> line!" >> >> Today I gave it a 'service', oil change, air filter and tranny juice and >> filter. I used a Fram TG oil filter since if you bought a jug (5 qts) of >> Valvoline oil you got the filter $2 off. Maybe it's just on the Subaru? >> >> NOPE! After I changed the oil and took it for a test, the oil pressure >> guage had dropped a whole mark off halfway! I don't believe it! >> >> I'm going to wait until the next nice day, pull the oil filter and put on >> something like a Wix. Never had that problem with either OEM or Wix >> filters, and Wix got high ratings from Consumer's Reports. > > But in the Consumer Reports test, Fram (and Lee Maxifilter - Champion) > did even better and was not only top rated but also check rated, > meaning they did significantly better than the rest. They removed > something like 88% of the test particles (I think they were 20 or 25 > micron particles, but I don't remember if the test was single-pass or > multi-pass), compared to 70% or 75% for AC. The worst filter removed > 50%, and I think it was a depth filter. You have to remember that the filter that will remove the smallest particles will generally be the one which has the highest resistance to flow (smallest pore sizes). Do you have any data that accurately describes what happens when particles of various small sizes are left in the oil? I dont. I have, like you I am sure, read that they are not desirable, but have never seen HARD data.
From: Nate Nagel on 23 Nov 2009 19:09
jim wrote: > > nm5k(a)wt.net wrote: >> On Nov 23, 1:58 pm, jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@m(a)mwt,net> wrote: >> >>> If you notice the millions of new cars using Fram filters aren't the >>> ones having problems. It is always the guys with the 30 year old beaters >>> who tell of their the bad experience with the Fram filters. >> But I suspect not for the reason you think. A lot of the problem >> is the position of the filter. And lots of older cars had the filter >> mounted where it drained easily. It's not due to the condition of >> the engine. Remember, I had this problem with a brand new rebuilt >> engine that ran great, and it never did it again after dumping the >> Fram >> filter. My engine was not a beater and the oil pump was brand new. > > I've seen rebuilt engines that are beaters. > >>> That is not to say Fram filters are high quality. They are cheap >>> filters, but they are good enough if you change the oil often enough. >>> >>> -jim >> They filter ok, but like one said, who cares if the valve doesn't >> work >> worth a hoot, and it's a proven fact that they don't. > > It's not a fact and your account of one experience is hardly proof. The studies > I have seen give the drain back valve on Fram a good rating. Your proof is one > experience against millions. Any filter's drain back valve will leak if a piece > of crud happens to prevent it from sealing. That possibility is most likely on a > freshly rebuilt engine. > And the drain back valve have nothing to do with the operating oil pressure, > which was the topic of this thread. > > -jim Everyone who's ever owned a car with an "upside down" oil filter knows that Fram ADBVs suck. They don't work more often than they do, or at least that was the case the last time I used one, 15 years ago. If they can't manage to make something as simple as an ADBV work, that doesn't say a whole lot for their overall quality, and I don't feel the need to roll the dice with my engine when a better filter is easily available for the same price. nate -- replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel |