for the guys that are into recreational oil changing...
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From: C. E. White on 1 Apr 2010 10:31 "E. Meyer" <e.p.meyer(a)verizon.net> wrote in message news:C7D8C56C.19901%e.p.meyer(a)verizon.net... > On 3/30/10 11:26 PM, in article > slrnhr5jnf.j1e.joe(a)barada.griffincs.local, > "Joe" <joe(a)spam.hits-spam-buffalo.com> wrote: > >> On 2010-03-31, SMS <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote: >>> On 30/03/10 6:06 AM, FatterDumber& Happier Moe wrote: >>>> jim beam wrote: >>>>> http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/TechnologyDevelopment/OPPTD_FLY_High-Efficiency-Oil- >>>>> Filters.cfm >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> shock, horror, they used oil analysis to arrive at these >>>>> recommendations! >>>>> >>>> If you drive your car like a fleet vehicle than this might apply. >>>> If you >>>> are the typical driver you better stick to the manufacturer's >>>> recommendation. >>> >>> Pretty sure he was directing the original post at the people that >>> go far >>> beyond the manufacturer's recommendations. Believe it or not, >>> there are >>> still some people out there doing two to three times the number of >>> oil >>> changes that the manufacturer recommends (i.e. 3000 mile oil >>> changes) >>> because they don't understand that excessive oil changes provide >>> no >>> additional benefit (and may actually be bad for the vehicle). I've >>> never >>> met one of these people in real life, but I've read their postings >>> so >>> they probably exist (maybe they are only in states that lack good >>> public >>> schools). >>> >>> If 3000 mile oil changes are "cheap insurance" why aren't they >>> changing >>> the oil every 1500 miles or every 750 miles, and buying as much of >>> that >>> cheap insurance as they can get? >> >> The 3000 mile guys are usually old-timers not willing to change. >> There is not enough evidence on the planet to convince my father >> that >> getting the oil changed at 6000 or 10000 is OK. He was brought up >> on >> 3000, and that's how it'll be until he dies. > > You guys must be pretty young. My dad grew up on 1000 mile oil > changes & > the rule of thumb was whenever it burned a quart, it was time to > change the > oil. > > While some automakers (e.g. Honda) are now saying 5,000/10,000 mile > oil > change intervals, there are some that are not. Nissan, for example > still > says 3750 (Severe) & 7500 (Normal), this from my '08 Altima and my > '09 G37. > Their definition of normal also pretty much leaves out everybody. Are you sure of that? I had a Frontier and my reading of the maual indicated that changing oil according to the "severe" scedule was open to a broad interpertation. Here is what was in my 2006 Frontier Owners Guide: Operation under the following conditions may require more frequent oil and filter changes: * repeated short distance driving at cold outside temperatures * driving in dusty conditions * extensive idling * towing a trailer * stop and go commuting Here is what the Nissan Maintenance Guide says: Depending on your driving habits and local conditions, you should follow one of the three maintenance schedules listed below. Use these guidelines to determine which maintenance schedule to use: PREMIUM MAINTENANCE* (Every 3,750 miles or 3 months, whichever comes first) Premium Maintenance is a Nissanrecommended option that is suitable for all driving habits and local conditions. Nissan developed Premium Maintenance for owners who want the ultimate in preventative maintenance. With Premium Maintenance, more maintenance items are regularly checked or replaced than with either Schedule 1 or Schedule 2 maintenance schedules. Using the Premium Maintenance schedule may optimize the performance, reliability, and resale value of your vehicle. SCHEDULE 1 (Every 3,750 miles or 3 months, whichever comes first) Schedule 1 features the same 3,750-mile service intervals as Premium Maintenance; however, with Schedule 1 fewer maintenance items are regularly checked or replaced than with the Premium Maintenance schedule. Use Schedule 1 if you primarily operate your vehicle under any of these conditions: * Repeated short trips of less than 5 miles in normal temperatures or less than 10 miles in freezing temperatures * Stop-and-go traffic in hot weather or low-speed driving for long distances * Driving in dusty conditions or on rough, muddy, or salt-spread roads * Towing a trailer, or using a camper or car-top carrier SCHEDULE 2 (Every 7,500 miles or 6 months, whichever comes first) Schedule 2 features 7,500-mile service intervals; with Schedule 2 fewer maintenance items are regularly checked or replaced than with Schedule 1. Generally, Schedule 2 applies only to highway driving in temperate conditions. Use Schedule 2 only if you primarily operate your vehicle under conditions other than those listed in Schedule 1. * Premium Maintenance is a Nissan-recommended option; however, owners need not perform such maintenance in order to maintain the warranties which come with their Nissan. Premium Maintenance may not be available outside the United States, please inquire of your dealer. ****End Quotes**** It seems to me the wording is designed to encourage owners to use the 3,750 service interval, but really, how many people make repeated short trips of less than 5 miles? My assumption would be if you do a five mile commute, but still drive far enough at least weekly to warm the car up, this short trip requirement wouldn't apply. The stop and go driving requirement and low spped for long distance requirements are undefined. I suppose if you live in LA, then you may always be in stop and go traffic. While this might be hard on your brakes, do you really think it is all that hard on the engine oil? I suppose if you spend hours of time stopped and idling, then you need to change your oil more often. This is where a system like the GM Oil Monitor is very useful. It actually counts engine revolutions and modifies oil change intervals accordingly. I like the Ford descriptions of Normal and Severe Service better: Determine which maintenance schedule to follow It's important to follow the maintenance schedule that most closely mirrors your driving habits and the conditions under which you drive. For this reason, the Scheduled Maintenance Guide is divided into two basic maintenance schedules: the Normal Schedule (further segmented into Trucks, Fullsize Vans & SUVs and Cars & CUVs) and Special Operating Conditions. Determining which maintenance schedule is right for you is easy. For the most part, do you drive your Ford, Lincoln or Mercury vehicle under typical, everyday conditions? If so, follow the Normal Schedule Trucks, Fullsize Vans & SUVs, or Normal Schedule Cars & CUVs. Special Operating Conditions However, if one or more of the Special Operating Conditions outlined below better describes how you typically operate your vehicle, you will need to perform some maintenance services more often than the Normal Schedule recommends. .. Towing a trailer or carrying heavy loads .. Extensive idling and/or driving at low-speeds for long distances .. Driving in dusty conditions .. Off-road operation .. Use of E85 fuel 50% of the time or greater (flex fuel vehicles only) Important: For further details and information regarding these Special Operating Conditions see page 42. ..... Items Needing Special Attention If you operate your Ford/Lincoln/Mercury primarily in one of the more demanding Special Operating Conditions listed below, you will need to have some items maintained more frequently. If you only occasionally operate your vehicle under these conditions, it is not necessary to perform the additional maintenance. For specific recommendations, see your Ford or Lincoln Mercury Dealership Service Advisor or Technician. ****End Quote**** Notice the statements including the words "primarily" and "occasionally." To me these implies most owners are exempt. I think the systems like GM's (and others) that use oil life monitors that adjust the change interval based on driving patterns are the best. Toyota took an approach that at least eliminates confusion - they did away with the whole normal/severe schedule confusion by just saying to change the oil every 5000 miles. Of course all of this is just for the US. In Europe oil change intervals are generally specified to be much longer - even for Toyotas that use the same (?) engines as US Toyotas. I have had people claim this is because European specifications for oil are much better than in the US. Does this mean if I use oil that meets the European specs, I could go even longer? Ed
From: C. E. White on 1 Apr 2010 10:37 "jim" <"sjedgingN0Sp"@m(a)mwt,net> wrote in message news:A8GdndMKt4ay1y7WnZ2dnUVZ_iydnZ2d(a)bright.net... > The question is why are there so many zealots on the internet that > feel > it is their mission in life to convince other motorists that it is > good > to be driving around with black oil in their engines? What sort of > belief system drives a person to go around trying to convert others > to > black engine oil? While eveyone should make their own decisions on this, I can think of a few "reasonable" reasons why it is useful to at least let people know 3000 mile oil changes are not usually beneficial: 1) To counteract the constant din from compnies like Jiffy-Lube that have brainwashed gnerations of people into thinking you must change your oil every 3000 miles. 2) To make people aware that cars and oils are much better than was the case when their Fathers used to change their oil. 3) Becasue some people are concerned about the environement and don't like seeing all that perfectly good oil being drained from engines. 4) Just becasue we want people to know the facts so they can make an informed decision. Ed
From: hls on 1 Apr 2010 12:18 "C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message > > While eveyone should make their own decisions on this, I can think of a > few "reasonable" reasons why it is useful to at least let people know 3000 > mile oil changes are not usually beneficial: > > 1) To counteract the constant din from compnies like Jiffy-Lube that have > brainwashed gnerations of people into thinking you must change your oil > every 3000 miles. > > 2) To make people aware that cars and oils are much better than was the > case when their Fathers used to change their oil. > > 3) Becasue some people are concerned about the environement and don't like > seeing all that perfectly good oil being drained from engines. > > 4) Just becasue we want people to know the facts so they can make an > informed decision. > > Ed What most people want, I think, is to have a car that goes when you turn the key, and doesnt crater before you are ready to trade it in and get a new one, all at a miraculously low price. We probably keep our cars longer than most people. 8-10 years for us is not unusual. And I want minimum trouble. I use the oil change interval recommended by the maker, no matter what an oil analysis might indicate. If I err, it tends to be on the side of changing sooner than later. But as you say, everyone must make that decision for himself. It's your car, do what you want with it.
From: SMS on 1 Apr 2010 12:31 On 31/03/10 5:33 PM, Bob Jones wrote: <snip> > - Driving less than 5 miles per trip or less than 10 miles per trip in > freezing temperatures. > - Driving in extreme hot (over 90F) conditions. > - Extensive idling or long periods of stop-and-go driving. > - Driving in muddy, dusty, de-iced, or mountain roads. > > I believe they apply to most drivers in this country. Are you saying no? The 5 or 10 miles per trip is if you _exclusively_ do short trips. Ditto for idling and stop and go driving. What they're worried about is that the water that accumulates in the oil will not be vaporized. A freeway drive of 30 minutes or so will take care of the problem with water condensing into the oil. That's why an interval of 7500 miles or six months, whichever occurs first, is a better spec. It takes into account drivers that are doing short trips only by default. Jiffy Lube tries to convince everyone that they qualify for "severe service" but don't fall for it.
From: ACAR on 1 Apr 2010 12:39
On Mar 31, 11:34 am, SMS <scharf.ste...(a)geemail.com> wrote: snip > You're not increasing your engine's life by changing your oil every 2000 > or 3000 miles versus 5000 miles. Did you bother to follow JB's link and read the suggested oil change intervals he is promoting? Based on your sentence above, obviously not. |