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From: C. E. White on 25 Feb 2010 12:17 "Clive" <clive(a)yewbank.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:SeLuHGD8ZHhLFwNT(a)yewbank.demon.co.uk... > In message <hm12mh$91d$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, C. E. White > <cewhite3(a)mindspring.com> writes >> But German >>electronics...well they suck. > You're totally uneducated about Europe then. It's the Italian cars > that have very unreliable electrics. Bosch has an enviable name in > all things electronic and cars are no exception. May-be you're > thinking about some American factory that is turning out Bosch > supplies, over there with locally sourced rubbish parts. Well maybe German cars hold up better in Europe than in the US. But, I've had to many negative experiencs with the eletrical bits of German cars sold in the US to think that Bosch makes everything perfect. I survived 3 VWs, an Audi, a German built Fiesta, and a BMW. All had electrical bits that failed....and failed again...and again. Power windows, alternators, the stupid tail light assembles (who can't build tail light bulb holders that work for 20 years - I tell you who, the Germans!). Maybe the Italians and British do worse - I don't know, we haven't gotten significant numbers of cars from those countries in years. Here is my partially remembered list of electrical failures: Fiesta (German built)- alternator - Bosch, but at least the brushes were easy to repalce....and repalce again. Nothing else electrical on the car that could fail. Audi - cooling fan relay (and I only kept the car 3 years) VW Jetta (German built) - in tank fuel pump - twice, alternator once, all the power windows, fuse box melted VW Passat (German built) -alternator, all the power windows, sunroof motor, instruments went flaky, burned out tail lights constantly VW Jetta (Built in Mexico?) - dash would suddenly stop working and then start again as mysteriously, underhood fuse block melted, taillights burned out constantly, alternator failed, second fuse block showed burned marks, got rid of the car BMW 740 (GErman built) - what didn't go wrong with the electronics - CD Player died, both tailight assemblies had to be replaced becasue the contacts burned up, power windows failed, power seat failed, so many things I can't remeber them all......This car was an absolute money pit. Only the BMW was purchased used (with less than 80k miles). All the others were purchased new. I like German cars. Thye usually fit me well, are comfortable, drive well, and look great. But I don't think they are as reliable as American or Japanese built cars. If I had plenty of excess cash, I'd probably buy a Mercedes, but I don't think I'd expect the sort of reliability you get from a Camry and I don't have plenty of cash. Ed
From: Clive on 25 Feb 2010 19:29 In message <hm6bb0$a2l$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, C. E. White <cewhite3(a)mindspring.com> writes >Fiesta (German built)- alternator - Bosch, but at least the brushes >were easy to repalce....and repalce again. Nothing else electrical on >the car that could fail. >Audi - cooling fan relay (and I only kept the car 3 years) >VW Jetta (German built) - in tank fuel pump - twice, alternator once, >all the power windows, fuse box melted >VW Passat (German built) -alternator, all the power windows, sunroof >motor, instruments went flaky, burned out tail lights constantly >VW Jetta (Built in Mexico?) - dash would suddenly stop working and >then start again as mysteriously, underhood fuse block melted, >taillights burned out constantly, alternator failed, second fuse block >showed burned marks, got rid of the car >BMW 740 (GErman built) - what didn't go wrong with the electronics - >CD Player died, both tailight assemblies had to be replaced becasue >the contacts burned up, power windows failed, power seat failed, so >many things I can't remeber them all......This car was an absolute >money pit. > >Only the BMW was purchased used (with less than 80k miles). All the >others were purchased new. > >I like German cars. Thye usually fit me well, are comfortable, drive >well, and look great. But I don't think they are as reliable as >American or Japanese built cars. You're right they're not as reliable as Japanese cars, but nothing is as unreliable (India and China excepted) as an American car. -- Clive
From: Bob Cooper on 25 Feb 2010 20:10 In article <aYBMmcDXXxhLFwsy(a)yewbank.demon.co.uk>, clive(a)yewbank.demon.co.uk says... > > In message <hm6bb0$a2l$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, C. E. White > <cewhite3(a)mindspring.com> writes > >Fiesta (German built)- alternator - Bosch, but at least the brushes > >were easy to repalce....and repalce again. Nothing else electrical on > >the car that could fail. > >Audi - cooling fan relay (and I only kept the car 3 years) > >VW Jetta (German built) - in tank fuel pump - twice, alternator once, > >all the power windows, fuse box melted > >VW Passat (German built) -alternator, all the power windows, sunroof > >motor, instruments went flaky, burned out tail lights constantly > >VW Jetta (Built in Mexico?) - dash would suddenly stop working and > >then start again as mysteriously, underhood fuse block melted, > >taillights burned out constantly, alternator failed, second fuse block > >showed burned marks, got rid of the car > >BMW 740 (GErman built) - what didn't go wrong with the electronics - > >CD Player died, both tailight assemblies had to be replaced becasue > >the contacts burned up, power windows failed, power seat failed, so > >many things I can't remeber them all......This car was an absolute > >money pit. > > > >Only the BMW was purchased used (with less than 80k miles). All the > >others were purchased new. > > > >I like German cars. Thye usually fit me well, are comfortable, drive > >well, and look great. But I don't think they are as reliable as > >American or Japanese built cars. > You're right they're not as reliable as Japanese cars, but nothing is as > unreliable (India and China excepted) as an American car. And here we have Clive, a British expert on German, American, Chinese, Indian, and Japanese cars. He is a most welcome addition to our current team of world auto experts, Jim Beam and HairyChoke. With this team, rec.autos.tech is now ready to take global questions. We are fortunate, indeed.
From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 25 Feb 2010 20:23 On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:10:03 -0600, Bob Cooper wrote: >> You're right they're not as reliable as Japanese cars, but nothing is as >> unreliable (India and China excepted) as an American car. > > And here we have Clive, a British expert on German, American, Chinese, > Indian, and Japanese cars. > He is a most welcome addition to our current team of world auto experts, > Jim Beam and HairyChoke. > With this team, rec.autos.tech is now ready to take global questions. We > are fortunate, indeed. It's Hachiroku. I knew you had some kind of reading deficiency. BTW, I do have something hairy that could choke you, if I swung that way. I don't, so you'll have to get your thrills elsewhere. My guess is you're jealous because some of us actually know something.
From: Ricky Gregory on 25 Feb 2010 20:21
The only thing reliable about Clive is his relentless bashing of American cars. My last two Chevrolet Suburbans traveled 301K and 278k respectively all the while pulling boats and hotrods (real American made hotrods by the way) with the most minor of repairs, and this is from a class of vehicle that the japs or germans have never made a competitor. So, what do I drive now. well a 2009 Suburban of course! Have you ever seen a toyota sold at Barrett-Jackson? |