The Drive-a-Toyota Act
in [Toyota]
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From: AmFion1 on 30 Jul 2007 17:23 On Jul 2, 10:42 pm, "Cathy F." <clfrc...(a)adelphia.net> wrote: > "Fred" <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message > > news:df127c62fb385876500f68f0791898d6(a)pseudo.borked.net... > > > Wall Street Journal > > > "...this [CAFE] debate is a test of who has more clout in today's > > Democratic Congress -- the men and women who work in American > > factories, or the affluent greens on both coasts who can afford to pay > > a premium to own a Prius to indulge their concern about global warming." > > The Camry is the best selling car in the U.S., right? Yet it costs a little > less, as much as, or more than a Prius, depending on the pkg. the Prius > comes with, & the model of the Camry. So... IMO, that theory sort of goes > down the drain... > > Cathy > > > > > complete article:http://curio.us/8h- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Lets compare apple to apples. The Camry is a bigger car than the Prius.
From: dold on 31 Jul 2007 00:28 In alt.autos.ford Bill Putney <bptn(a)kinez.net> wrote: > So - is that the way everything is on the Prius - things they could just > as easily have made standard and relatively inexpensive to replace they The BMW Mini has a very expensive battery as well. Not a clue why, other than the initials are for Bring Money With. -- Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5
From: Nza on 31 Jul 2007 20:37 ok thanks, you must be correct, eh?
From: DH on 30 Jul 2007 13:53 "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote in message news:qsudnauzDPEIhDPbnZ2dnUVZ_uCinZ2d(a)ptd.net... > If one wants to calculate the TRUE annual cost of ownership, one must take > into consideration the total cost of acquiring a vehicle, insuring, > maintaining, repairing and operating that vehicle and at some point the > replacement cost for another new vehicle. > > Assume two buyers buy exactly the same $25,000 car. One buyer is the > average American new car buyer who replaces their car in three to four > years. The other buys a new car every ten years. The average person in > the US drives 15,000 miles per year. For a 3, 4, and ten year old cars > that will 45K, 60K and 150K miles. The average deprecation in 3 years is > 20%, in four 30%, in ten year 95% For the purpose of calculation, assume > the cars have four year 60K warranties and the owners are covered by equal > insurance policies, at the same cost, both cars use the same amount of > fuel, each vehicle needs an annual state inspection at $75, every owner > performs all of the required normal preventive 5K maintenance, that > averages $50, as well as the required 15K maintenance that averages $400, > each has a major repair $1,500 and a new vehicle goes up $1,000 a year. > You can set you own average shop rate and part prices to make the > comparison. Assume warranty covered repairs, the 45K, 60K and 150 > maintenance need not be added in, since the owners will be replacing the > vehicle(s) > > In ten years, after they both have purchased another new car and the cycle > begins again, who will have spent the most money per year? The guy that didn't buy the Toyota. > Are you surprised ? Not at all. > Mike The average depreciation for three years is NOT 20%, it will be much larger than that, 20% for the first year would be a start (and it's often higher even than that) and the average depreciation for 10 years is NOT 95%, 70-80% is probably more in line, even for American cars (my 7 year old Toyotas are worth about half their original purchase price). And those are simply estimates, anyway. One does not include the cost of a replacement vehicle in figuring out the lifecycle cost of the first vehicle; one uses the trade value or private party sale proceeds from that first vehicle to determine the actual depreciation. For planning purposes, you can use an estimate. When you get to the end of the 3, 4 or 10 year ownership, you use the actual figure to determine what the real operating cost was. It's also important to the buyer who keeps his vehicle 10 years to choose his new vehicle wisely. I am not spending $400 in maintenance very year on my Toyotas and I have yet to see a $1,500 repair bill on any of them. They are 6, 7, 7 and 8 years old at the moment. They start immediately under all conditions, the engines are nearly silent in operation, there's no detectable loss of power and *ALL* of the accessories work (including the windows go up and down at full speed). Also, for planning purposes, I have noticed that high mileage appears to dramatically drive down the value of a car. If you don't drive much, your depreciation expense on older cars can be greatly reduced by lower mileage (especially if it's a relatively desirable car), so keeping them longer may look more attractive. > "Nza" <thenza(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:1185736742.131983.194540(a)q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... >> On Jul 3, 3:54 pm, "Cathy F." <clfrc...(a)adelphia.net> wrote: >>> >>> I just checked the Toyota's site: the hybrid battery's warranty is for 8 >>> years/100K miles. I tend to keep my cars a while, & the longest I've >>> ever >>> kept one has been 8 years, the shortest was 4, and usually it's 6 years. >>> I >>> personally wouldn't even begin to factor in the possible eventual cost >>> of a >>> new battery when deciding on purchasing a hybrid. >>> >>> Cathy >>> >> >> Let's say someone buys the car used after 5 years and the battery >> immediately fails. Is the warranty going to cover the new owner? >> >> The last time I bought a battery for my 1979 Celica, it was a generic >> Advance Auto cheapie battery. It was a 24 month battery, but it is >> still good. It cost about $60. The toyota cost me $400 from Ebay, >> $140 in diesel fuel to drive 1000 miles round trip to get it (it was >> in 2000), and $50 for an "in-town" trailer rental.. >> >> Once I got the car, I found that the motor needed freshening. I put ~ >> $800 into the motor and parts for it. I have had to spend $450 on six >> tires so far. Replaced the brake master cylinder ($40 ebay), the >> clutch master ($25 ebay), the transmission (brother ran it out of >> fluid) with one from another parts car (labor only). Replaced the >> pitman arm ($30 ebay) and the idler arm ($25 ebay). >> >> Total that and it's $2020. I have no idea what i've spent on gas >> over the last 45,000 miles I've put on it in the last 5 years (didn't >> drive it for two when i first had it), but around town it gets around >> 18 - 20 mpg and on the road it gets 28 - 30 mpg at 75 - 80 mph all day >> long. >> >> I can't understand why someone would *want* a new car.. >> Let's just say all those miles were in town, getting 20 mpg, with gas >> at $3,00 per gallon. (although i know that more than half of the miles >> were highway and significantly LESS than $3,00 a gallon) >> 45,000 / 20 = 2250 gallons. >> 2250 * 3 = $6750 >> >> $6750 + $2020 = $8770 >> >> 45,000 miles / $8770 = ~ 5.13 cents per mile. >> >> Now *THAT* is what I call an economy car. I challenge *anyone* with a >> new car to come up with an operating cost that low. >> >> Stick that in your tailpipe and smoke it. >> > > -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
From: Mike Hunter on 1 Aug 2007 14:22
Perhaps but what part of 'Assume two buyers buy exactly the same $25,000 car,' they BOTH buy Toyotas ;) mike "DH" <dh(a)stargate.com> wrote in message news:46ae19ab$0$16400$88260bb3(a)free.teranews.com... > "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote in message > news:qsudnauzDPEIhDPbnZ2dnUVZ_uCinZ2d(a)ptd.net... >> If one wants to calculate the TRUE annual cost of ownership, one must >> take into consideration the total cost of acquiring a vehicle, insuring, >> maintaining, repairing and operating that vehicle and at some point the >> replacement cost for another new vehicle. >> >> Assume two buyers buy exactly the same $25,000 car. One buyer is the >> average American new car buyer who replaces their car in three to four >> years. The other buys a new car every ten years. The average person in >> the US drives 15,000 miles per year. For a 3, 4, and ten year old cars >> that will 45K, 60K and 150K miles. The average deprecation in 3 years is >> 20%, in four 30%, in ten year 95% For the purpose of calculation, >> assume the cars have four year 60K warranties and the owners are covered >> by equal insurance policies, at the same cost, both cars use the same >> amount of fuel, each vehicle needs an annual state inspection at $75, >> every owner performs all of the required normal preventive 5K >> maintenance, that averages $50, as well as the required 15K maintenance >> that averages $400, each has a major repair $1,500 and a new vehicle goes >> up $1,000 a year. You can set you own average shop rate and part prices >> to make the comparison. Assume warranty covered repairs, the 45K, 60K and >> 150 maintenance need not be added in, since the owners will be replacing >> the vehicle(s) >> >> In ten years, after they both have purchased another new car and the >> cycle begins again, who will have spent the most money per year? > > The guy that didn't buy the Toyota. > >> Are you surprised ? > > Not at all. > >> Mike > > The average depreciation for three years is NOT 20%, it will be much > larger than that, 20% for the first year would be a start (and it's often > higher even than that) and the average depreciation for 10 years is NOT > 95%, 70-80% is probably more in line, even for American cars (my 7 year > old Toyotas are worth about half their original purchase price). And > those are simply estimates, anyway. One does not include the cost of a > replacement vehicle in figuring out the lifecycle cost of the first > vehicle; one uses the trade value or private party sale proceeds from that > first vehicle to determine the actual depreciation. For planning > purposes, you can use an estimate. When you get to the end of the 3, 4 or > 10 year ownership, you use the actual figure to determine what the real > operating cost was. > > It's also important to the buyer who keeps his vehicle 10 years to choose > his new vehicle wisely. I am not spending $400 in maintenance very year > on my Toyotas and I have yet to see a $1,500 repair bill on any of them. > They are 6, 7, 7 and 8 years old at the moment. They start immediately > under all conditions, the engines are nearly silent in operation, there's > no detectable loss of power and *ALL* of the accessories work (including > the windows go up and down at full speed). > > Also, for planning purposes, I have noticed that high mileage appears to > dramatically drive down the value of a car. If you don't drive much, your > depreciation expense on older cars can be greatly reduced by lower mileage > (especially if it's a relatively desirable car), so keeping them longer > may look more attractive. > >> "Nza" <thenza(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message >> news:1185736742.131983.194540(a)q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... >>> On Jul 3, 3:54 pm, "Cathy F." <clfrc...(a)adelphia.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> I just checked the Toyota's site: the hybrid battery's warranty is for >>>> 8 >>>> years/100K miles. I tend to keep my cars a while, & the longest I've >>>> ever >>>> kept one has been 8 years, the shortest was 4, and usually it's 6 >>>> years. I >>>> personally wouldn't even begin to factor in the possible eventual cost >>>> of a >>>> new battery when deciding on purchasing a hybrid. >>>> >>>> Cathy >>>> >>> >>> Let's say someone buys the car used after 5 years and the battery >>> immediately fails. Is the warranty going to cover the new owner? >>> >>> The last time I bought a battery for my 1979 Celica, it was a generic >>> Advance Auto cheapie battery. It was a 24 month battery, but it is >>> still good. It cost about $60. The toyota cost me $400 from Ebay, >>> $140 in diesel fuel to drive 1000 miles round trip to get it (it was >>> in 2000), and $50 for an "in-town" trailer rental.. >>> >>> Once I got the car, I found that the motor needed freshening. I put ~ >>> $800 into the motor and parts for it. I have had to spend $450 on six >>> tires so far. Replaced the brake master cylinder ($40 ebay), the >>> clutch master ($25 ebay), the transmission (brother ran it out of >>> fluid) with one from another parts car (labor only). Replaced the >>> pitman arm ($30 ebay) and the idler arm ($25 ebay). >>> >>> Total that and it's $2020. I have no idea what i've spent on gas >>> over the last 45,000 miles I've put on it in the last 5 years (didn't >>> drive it for two when i first had it), but around town it gets around >>> 18 - 20 mpg and on the road it gets 28 - 30 mpg at 75 - 80 mph all day >>> long. >>> >>> I can't understand why someone would *want* a new car.. >>> Let's just say all those miles were in town, getting 20 mpg, with gas >>> at $3,00 per gallon. (although i know that more than half of the miles >>> were highway and significantly LESS than $3,00 a gallon) >>> 45,000 / 20 = 2250 gallons. >>> 2250 * 3 = $6750 >>> >>> $6750 + $2020 = $8770 >>> >>> 45,000 miles / $8770 = ~ 5.13 cents per mile. >>> >>> Now *THAT* is what I call an economy car. I challenge *anyone* with a >>> new car to come up with an operating cost that low. >>> >>> Stick that in your tailpipe and smoke it. >>> >> >> > > > > -- > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > |