The Drive-a-Toyota Act
in [Toyota]
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From: DH on 1 Aug 2007 15:54 "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote in message news:n5SdnTfr9c_JUi3bnZ2dnUVZ_jednZ2d(a)ptd.net... > Perhaps but what part of 'Assume two buyers buy exactly the same $25,000 > car,' they BOTH buy Toyotas ;) > > mike For some reason, I interpreted that as just equal in price. Whatever. Your understanding of depreciation is still thoroughly and entirely wrong. I built a 9-year model using more realistic depreciation figures and the buyer who turns over cars every three years was spending an extra $20,000 (on total expenses between $60,000 and $70,000, depending on exactly what one chooses to include in the model). Granted, he gets to ride in a newer car for 6 of the 9 years in the comparison but... I'd take the cash. I have nothing to prove to my neighbors and I'd rather buy real estate or stocks than sink money into a car that's going to depreciate rather than earn money for me. I also found your assertion that you were doing well on replacing them every two years to be humorous at best and deceptive at worst. By your own admission, some month ago, you don't actually keep them two years, keeping them 18 to 22 months and unloading them before the next model year cycle starts in the fall, which cuts your depreciation but also means you incur other expenses for part of the two-year cycle and you're buying Ford Mustang GTs, which happen to be produced in strictly limited quantities which guarantees a very high resale value in comparison to the MSRP of the new model year and you're clearly getting a sweetheart deal on them. This isn't treatment that an Impala buyer is going to get. > "DH" <dh(a)stargate.com> wrote in message > news:46ae19ab$0$16400$88260bb3(a)free.teranews.com... >> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote in message >> news:qsudnauzDPEIhDPbnZ2dnUVZ_uCinZ2d(a)ptd.net... >>> If one wants to calculate the TRUE annual cost of ownership, one must >>> take into consideration the total cost of acquiring a vehicle, insuring, >>> maintaining, repairing and operating that vehicle and at some point the >>> replacement cost for another new vehicle. >>> >>> Assume two buyers buy exactly the same $25,000 car. One buyer is the >>> average American new car buyer who replaces their car in three to four >>> years. The other buys a new car every ten years. The average person in >>> the US drives 15,000 miles per year. For a 3, 4, and ten year old cars >>> that will 45K, 60K and 150K miles. The average deprecation in 3 years is >>> 20%, in four 30%, in ten year 95% For the purpose of calculation, >>> assume the cars have four year 60K warranties and the owners are covered >>> by equal insurance policies, at the same cost, both cars use the same >>> amount of fuel, each vehicle needs an annual state inspection at $75, >>> every owner performs all of the required normal preventive 5K >>> maintenance, that averages $50, as well as the required 15K maintenance >>> that averages $400, each has a major repair $1,500 and a new vehicle >>> goes up $1,000 a year. You can set you own average shop rate and part >>> prices to make the comparison. Assume warranty covered repairs, the 45K, >>> 60K and 150 maintenance need not be added in, since the owners will be >>> replacing the vehicle(s) >>> >>> In ten years, after they both have purchased another new car and the >>> cycle begins again, who will have spent the most money per year? >> >> The guy that didn't buy the Toyota. >> >>> Are you surprised ? >> >> Not at all. >> >>> Mike >> >> The average depreciation for three years is NOT 20%, it will be much >> larger than that, 20% for the first year would be a start (and it's often >> higher even than that) and the average depreciation for 10 years is NOT >> 95%, 70-80% is probably more in line, even for American cars (my 7 year >> old Toyotas are worth about half their original purchase price). And >> those are simply estimates, anyway. One does not include the cost of a >> replacement vehicle in figuring out the lifecycle cost of the first >> vehicle; one uses the trade value or private party sale proceeds from >> that first vehicle to determine the actual depreciation. For planning >> purposes, you can use an estimate. When you get to the end of the 3, 4 or >> 10 year ownership, you use the actual figure to determine what the real >> operating cost was. >> >> It's also important to the buyer who keeps his vehicle 10 years to choose >> his new vehicle wisely. I am not spending $400 in maintenance very year >> on my Toyotas and I have yet to see a $1,500 repair bill on any of them. >> They are 6, 7, 7 and 8 years old at the moment. They start immediately >> under all conditions, the engines are nearly silent in operation, there's >> no detectable loss of power and *ALL* of the accessories work (including >> the windows go up and down at full speed). >> >> Also, for planning purposes, I have noticed that high mileage appears to >> dramatically drive down the value of a car. If you don't drive much, >> your depreciation expense on older cars can be greatly reduced by lower >> mileage (especially if it's a relatively desirable car), so keeping them >> longer may look more attractive. >> >>> "Nza" <thenza(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message >>> news:1185736742.131983.194540(a)q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... >>>> On Jul 3, 3:54 pm, "Cathy F." <clfrc...(a)adelphia.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I just checked the Toyota's site: the hybrid battery's warranty is for >>>>> 8 >>>>> years/100K miles. I tend to keep my cars a while, & the longest I've >>>>> ever >>>>> kept one has been 8 years, the shortest was 4, and usually it's 6 >>>>> years. I >>>>> personally wouldn't even begin to factor in the possible eventual cost >>>>> of a >>>>> new battery when deciding on purchasing a hybrid. >>>>> >>>>> Cathy >>>>> >>>> >>>> Let's say someone buys the car used after 5 years and the battery >>>> immediately fails. Is the warranty going to cover the new owner? >>>> >>>> The last time I bought a battery for my 1979 Celica, it was a generic >>>> Advance Auto cheapie battery. It was a 24 month battery, but it is >>>> still good. It cost about $60. The toyota cost me $400 from Ebay, >>>> $140 in diesel fuel to drive 1000 miles round trip to get it (it was >>>> in 2000), and $50 for an "in-town" trailer rental.. >>>> >>>> Once I got the car, I found that the motor needed freshening. I put ~ >>>> $800 into the motor and parts for it. I have had to spend $450 on six >>>> tires so far. Replaced the brake master cylinder ($40 ebay), the >>>> clutch master ($25 ebay), the transmission (brother ran it out of >>>> fluid) with one from another parts car (labor only). Replaced the >>>> pitman arm ($30 ebay) and the idler arm ($25 ebay). >>>> >>>> Total that and it's $2020. I have no idea what i've spent on gas >>>> over the last 45,000 miles I've put on it in the last 5 years (didn't >>>> drive it for two when i first had it), but around town it gets around >>>> 18 - 20 mpg and on the road it gets 28 - 30 mpg at 75 - 80 mph all day >>>> long. >>>> >>>> I can't understand why someone would *want* a new car.. >>>> Let's just say all those miles were in town, getting 20 mpg, with gas >>>> at $3,00 per gallon. (although i know that more than half of the miles >>>> were highway and significantly LESS than $3,00 a gallon) >>>> 45,000 / 20 = 2250 gallons. >>>> 2250 * 3 = $6750 >>>> >>>> $6750 + $2020 = $8770 >>>> >>>> 45,000 miles / $8770 = ~ 5.13 cents per mile. >>>> >>>> Now *THAT* is what I call an economy car. I challenge *anyone* with a >>>> new car to come up with an operating cost that low. >>>> >>>> Stick that in your tailpipe and smoke it. >> -- >> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com It wasn't free and it's highly unreliable. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
From: C. E. White on 1 Aug 2007 22:30 "DH" <dh(a)stargate.com> wrote in message news:46ae19ab$0$16400$88260bb3(a)free.teranews.com... > It's also important to the buyer who keeps his vehicle 10 years to choose > his new vehicle wisely. I am not spending $400 in maintenance very year > on my Toyotas and I have yet to see a $1,500 repair bill on any of them. > They are 6, 7, 7 and 8 years old at the moment. They start immediately > under all conditions, the engines are nearly silent in operation, there's > no detectable loss of power and *ALL* of the accessories work (including > the windows go up and down at full speed). Why do you think this is unusual? I haven't spend $1500 on mechanical repairs for all the Fords I've owned in the last 30 years combined (I have owned other cars, some much les reliable, including one Toyota that cost more to maintain than all the Fords I've every owned). My parents haven't spent a total of $1500 on mechanical repairs since I graduated from High School. That was 36 years ago, and they haven't owned anything but Fords. My Sister has a 6 (almost 7) year old Escape. Total cost of repairs - $10 (a cruise control cable that I installed). I drove a 1992 F150 for 14 years and the worst thing that it needed was an alternator after 13 years. My Sister has a 10 year old Civic, and the only things it has needed was a muffler and a set of plug wires. Is every Ford, or Honda as good as these? No! But not every Toyota is as good as yours have been. As for maintenance, I stick to 3k to 5k oil changes, 25K transmission fluid changes, brake fluid replaced every 3 or 4 years, and spark plugs every 100k (all my recent vehicles have had platinum plugs). Since I drive about 36k miles a year, I usually have to do 8 to 10 oil changes and one transmission change per year. This amounts to around $300. I usually have to do brakes every 60k miles or so, and new tires every 40k to 60k miles. So, I figure on buying brakes and tires every other year - figure an average of $250 a year for those items. So, it seems to me that in an average year I'll end up spending about $600 on maintenance. I can't see how it would be any less if I drove a Toyota. Brakes and tires aren't going to last significantly differently if I drive a Toyota. I suppose if I drove 18k a year, I'd only spend $300 on maintenance. Ed
From: dh on 1 Aug 2007 22:54
"C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message news:clbsi.48328$Fc.33866(a)attbi_s21... > > "DH" <dh(a)stargate.com> wrote in message > news:46ae19ab$0$16400$88260bb3(a)free.teranews.com... > >> It's also important to the buyer who keeps his vehicle 10 years to choose >> his new vehicle wisely. I am not spending $400 in maintenance very year >> on my Toyotas and I have yet to see a $1,500 repair bill on any of them. >> They are 6, 7, 7 and 8 years old at the moment. They start immediately >> under all conditions, the engines are nearly silent in operation, there's >> no detectable loss of power and *ALL* of the accessories work (including >> the windows go up and down at full speed). > > Why do you think this is unusual? I haven't spend $1500 on mechanical > repairs for all the Fords I've owned in the last 30 years combined (I have > owned other cars, some much les reliable, including one Toyota that cost > more to maintain than all the Fords I've every owned). My parents haven't > spent a total of $1500 on mechanical repairs since I graduated from High > School. That was 36 years ago, and they haven't owned anything but Fords. > My Sister has a 6 (almost 7) year old Escape. Total cost of repairs - $10 > (a cruise control cable that I installed). I drove a 1992 F150 for 14 > years and the worst thing that it needed was an alternator after 13 years. > My Sister has a 10 year old Civic, and the only things it has needed was a > muffler and a set of plug wires. Is every Ford, or Honda as good as these? > No! But not every Toyota is as good as yours have been. As for > maintenance, I stick to 3k to 5k oil changes, 25K transmission fluid > changes, brake fluid replaced every 3 or 4 years, and spark plugs every > 100k (all my recent vehicles have had platinum plugs). Since I drive about > 36k miles a year, I usually have to do 8 to 10 oil changes and one > transmission change per year. What?! Oh, you mean one transmission FLUID change... > This amounts to around $300. I usually have to do brakes every 60k miles > or so, and new tires every 40k to 60k miles. So, I figure on buying brakes > and tires every other year - figure an average of $250 a year for those > items. So, it seems to me that in an average year I'll end up spending > about $600 on maintenance. I can't see how it would be any less if I drove > a Toyota. Brakes and tires aren't going to last significantly differently > if I drive a Toyota. I suppose if I drove 18k a year, I'd only spend $300 > on maintenance. > > Ed Anyway, I didn't cross-post to alt.autos.ford. You're just going to have to tolerate people being noisily happy with their Toyotas in alt.autos.toyota. I can not help but believe that you have been very lucky and I am truly glad for you. My Ford was covered by a warranty and still cost a fortune in repairs. And on some things, they'd just deny that anything was wrong. Sure, the A/C shuts off going up hill and the heat comes on. But it's all part of the plan. And it's too bad Ford treated me so shabbily; the Fusion, the Five Hundred (oops - the New Taurus) and the Escape, especially the Hybrid, are all attractive products. But even if I weaken, my wife remains resolute - no more Fords. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |