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From: clare on 11 Feb 2010 20:51 On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 20:44:01 -0500, Hachiroku ???? <Trueno(a)e86.GTS> wrote: >On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 00:46:16 +0000, Clive wrote: > >> In message <4b72d99c$0$18644$ce5e7886(a)news-radius.ptd.net>, Mike Hunter >> <Mikehunt2(a)lycos.?.invalid> writes >>>I guess the Toyota loyalist are worried they may get injured or killed at >>>worst and the retail value of their cars will plummet at best. >> Or perhaps it's just that they're global with a car that passes the >> criteria of all governments whereas for instance the EU is very strict on >> what cars can be sold in it's area, which is why firms like Ford and GM >> have to make a totally different product for the EU. > >That why they don't sell US designed cars there? > >The UK version of the Escort was pretty close to the US version. >OTOH, GM had to buy Vauxhaul to get an 'in' in European markets. And just when, for the information of others on this list, did that happen?????? LONG before the Escort came on the scene in England. > >I've heard they're junk, too... And the Vauxhaull/Opel is one of the best car lines you can buy in Europe. They were not a BAD car on this side of the pond either - at least not the Vauxhall. Never had Opels in Canada to any extent, just like the US didn't get many Vauxhaulls. My last Vauxhaul was a 72 Viva HC Magnum rebranded as a Pontiac Firenza. GREAT little car.As long as you remembered it was a british car, not a Pontiac, and serviced it accordingly. > >
From: clare on 11 Feb 2010 20:54 On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:16:12 -0500, dr_jeff <utz(a)msu.edu> wrote: >Hachiroku ???? wrote: >> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 00:46:16 +0000, Clive wrote: >> >>> In message <4b72d99c$0$18644$ce5e7886(a)news-radius.ptd.net>, Mike Hunter >>> <Mikehunt2(a)lycos.?.invalid> writes >>>> I guess the Toyota loyalist are worried they may get injured or killed at >>>> worst and the retail value of their cars will plummet at best. >>> Or perhaps it's just that they're global with a car that passes the >>> criteria of all governments whereas for instance the EU is very strict on >>> what cars can be sold in it's area, which is why firms like Ford and GM >>> have to make a totally different product for the EU. >> >> That why they don't sell US designed cars there? >> >> The UK version of the Escort was pretty close to the US version. >> OTOH, GM had to buy Vauxhaul to get an 'in' in European markets. >> >> I've heard they're junk, too... > >A large part of why there are different cars for different markets is >that the markets have different needs. The Japanese and European markets >have fuel that is like 3 or 4 times higher than the price of fuel in the >US. SO fuel economy is more important than in the US. In addition, both >Europe and Japan are much more interested in fuel economy than we are in >the US. In both markets, there is less room for cars, so smaller cars >are more useful. > >And, besides this, the people have different tastes. In the US, for >years people have liked big boat-type cars. In Europe, people have >preferred smaller, more nimble cars. For example, Olds was advertising >that it had the first 4-wheel independent suspension car made in the US >in 1987 or 1988. The Peugeot 504 on which I learned to drive had >four-wheel indpendent suspension 13 years earlier. > >And the emissions and safety requirements are different, too. > >Jeff Not to forget, how many countries would you need to drive through to cover the distance from NYC to Detroit - much less from Tampa to Seattle or Bangor Maine to SanDiego?????? In Britain it's pretty hard to drive 100 miles in a straight line. In most of Continental Europe it is the same.
From: clare on 11 Feb 2010 20:59 On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:28:50 -0800, jim beam <me(a)privacy.net> wrote: >On 02/10/2010 06:16 PM, dr_jeff wrote: >> Hachiroku ???? wrote: >>> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 00:46:16 +0000, Clive wrote: >>> >>>> In message <4b72d99c$0$18644$ce5e7886(a)news-radius.ptd.net>, Mike Hunter >>>> <Mikehunt2(a)lycos.?.invalid> writes >>>>> I guess the Toyota loyalist are worried they may get injured or >>>>> killed at >>>>> worst and the retail value of their cars will plummet at best. >>>> Or perhaps it's just that they're global with a car that passes the >>>> criteria of all governments whereas for instance the EU is very >>>> strict on >>>> what cars can be sold in it's area, which is why firms like Ford and GM >>>> have to make a totally different product for the EU. >>> >>> That why they don't sell US designed cars there? >>> >>> The UK version of the Escort was pretty close to the US version. >>> OTOH, GM had to buy Vauxhaul to get an 'in' in European markets. >>> I've heard they're junk, too... >> >> A large part of why there are different cars for different markets is >> that the markets have different needs. The Japanese and European markets >> have fuel that is like 3 or 4 times higher than the price of fuel in the >> US. SO fuel economy is more important than in the US. In addition, both >> Europe and Japan are much more interested in fuel economy than we are in >> the US. In both markets, there is less room for cars, so smaller cars >> are more useful. >> >> And, besides this, the people have different tastes. In the US, for >> years people have liked big boat-type cars. In Europe, people have >> preferred smaller, more nimble cars. For example, Olds was advertising >> that it had the first 4-wheel independent suspension car made in the US >> in 1987 or 1988. The Peugeot 504 on which I learned to drive had >> four-wheel indpendent suspension 13 years earlier. > >vw have been 4-wheel independent since the 30's. those french citroen >2cv's were in the 40's. the fiat 500 was independent in the 50's. it's >basically only detroit garbage that is /still/ being sold with >horse-and-cart solid axles. > > And only a VERY few of even them. Basically the truck based stuff and the Mustang. >> >> And the emissions and safety requirements are different, too. >> >> Jeff
From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 11 Feb 2010 22:34 On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:51:29 -0500, clare wrote: > And just when, for the information of others on this list, did that > happen?????? > LONG before the Escort came on the scene in England. >> >>I've heard they're junk, too... > > And the Vauxhaull/Opel is one of the best car lines you can buy in Europe. > They were not a BAD car on this side of the pond either - at least not the > Vauxhall. Never had Opels in Canada to any extent, just like the US didn't > get many Vauxhaulls. > > My last Vauxhaul was a 72 Viva HC Magnum rebranded as a Pontiac Firenza. > GREAT little car.As long as you remembered it was a british car, not a > Pontiac, and serviced it accordingly. Opel sent some of their cooler cars here, the Manta 2 door coupe, and the GT, which was way cool. I almost bought one but it was in too rough shape for my limited skills at the time.
From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 11 Feb 2010 22:37
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:54:44 -0500, clare wrote: >>And the emissions and safety requirements are different, too. >> >>Jeff > Not to forget, how many countries would you need to drive through to > cover the distance from NYC to Detroit - much less from Tampa to Seattle > or Bangor Maine to SanDiego?????? In Britain it's pretty hard to drive 100 > miles in a straight line. In most of Continental Europe it is the same. But I sure would love to drive the road Princess Grace got killed on driving down into Monaco... |