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From: Canuck57 on 10 Feb 2010 21:22 On 10/02/2010 6:44 PM, Hachiroku ハチロク wrote: > On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 00:46:16 +0000, Clive wrote: > >> In message<4b72d99c$0$18644$ce5e7886(a)news-radius.ptd.net>, Mike Hunter >> <Mikehunt2(a)lycos.?.invalid> writes >>> I guess the Toyota loyalist are worried they may get injured or killed at >>> worst and the retail value of their cars will plummet at best. >> Or perhaps it's just that they're global with a car that passes the >> criteria of all governments whereas for instance the EU is very strict on >> what cars can be sold in it's area, which is why firms like Ford and GM >> have to make a totally different product for the EU. > > That why they don't sell US designed cars there? > > The UK version of the Escort was pretty close to the US version. > OTOH, GM had to buy Vauxhaul to get an 'in' in European markets. > > I've heard they're junk, too... I drove a GM-Vauxhal in 1981 while I was in the UK. Nice ride. The sister car n North America was a olds Firenza. The Firenza was a POC by comparison. Only the same in shape. Parts were of lower quality, poor assembly, wasn't the same engine nor tranny. Even the paint finish was sub-par to the Euro version. Real poor vehicle.
From: clare on 10 Feb 2010 22:08 On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:03:57 -0500, Hachiroku ???? <Trueno(a)e86.GTS> wrote: >On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:13:48 -0500, Mike Hunter wrote: > >> >> That is largest number of different types of vehicles, as well as the >> highest total number, ever recalled by ANY other vehicle manufacturer in >> history according the AP story. > > >Bullshit. Ford had a recall of 12M vehicles for exploding cruise controls. > You need to look at the total number of vehicles each company had on the road at the time of the recalls, and the number involved. The percentage of Toyotas on the road subject to recall, even with the MASSIVE recalls currently under way, are significantly lower than the percentage of either Ford or GM over the years. The infamous engine mount recall by GM in the early 70's involved something like 80% of all GM vehicles on the road at that time. I installed a LOT of tie-down cables!!!!!!!!!!!!
From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 10 Feb 2010 22:47 On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 22:08:38 -0500, clare wrote: > On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:03:57 -0500, Hachiroku ???? <Trueno(a)e86.GTS> wrote: > >>On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:13:48 -0500, Mike Hunter wrote: >> >> >>> That is largest number of different types of vehicles, as well as the >>> highest total number, ever recalled by ANY other vehicle manufacturer >>> in history according the AP story. >> >> >>Bullshit. Ford had a recall of 12M vehicles for exploding cruise >>controls. >> >> > > You need to look at the total number of vehicles each company had on the > road at the time of the recalls, and the number involved. > > The percentage of Toyotas on the road subject to recall, even with the > MASSIVE recalls currently under way, are significantly lower than the > percentage of either Ford or GM over the years. You're preaching to the chior. Over the years GM Ford and Chysler have recalled millions and millions of vehicles for even more serious issues than this; Ford even got away with issuing dashboard stickers for transmissions that could slip from Park to Reverse. Toyota has one serious recall, albeit affecting a LOT of their vehicles, and all of a sudden they're the worst car maker on Earth. This is affecting people who would never buy a Toyota in the first place a lot more than those of us who have had a few...or more. > > The infamous engine mount recall by GM in the early 70's involved > something like 80% of all GM vehicles on the road at that time. I > installed a LOT of tie-down cables!!!!!!!!!!!!
From: jim beam on 11 Feb 2010 00:28 On 02/10/2010 06:16 PM, dr_jeff wrote: > Hachiroku ハチロク wrote: >> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 00:46:16 +0000, Clive wrote: >> >>> In message <4b72d99c$0$18644$ce5e7886(a)news-radius.ptd.net>, Mike Hunter >>> <Mikehunt2(a)lycos.?.invalid> writes >>>> I guess the Toyota loyalist are worried they may get injured or >>>> killed at >>>> worst and the retail value of their cars will plummet at best. >>> Or perhaps it's just that they're global with a car that passes the >>> criteria of all governments whereas for instance the EU is very >>> strict on >>> what cars can be sold in it's area, which is why firms like Ford and GM >>> have to make a totally different product for the EU. >> >> That why they don't sell US designed cars there? >> >> The UK version of the Escort was pretty close to the US version. >> OTOH, GM had to buy Vauxhaul to get an 'in' in European markets. >> I've heard they're junk, too... > > A large part of why there are different cars for different markets is > that the markets have different needs. The Japanese and European markets > have fuel that is like 3 or 4 times higher than the price of fuel in the > US. SO fuel economy is more important than in the US. In addition, both > Europe and Japan are much more interested in fuel economy than we are in > the US. In both markets, there is less room for cars, so smaller cars > are more useful. > > And, besides this, the people have different tastes. In the US, for > years people have liked big boat-type cars. In Europe, people have > preferred smaller, more nimble cars. For example, Olds was advertising > that it had the first 4-wheel independent suspension car made in the US > in 1987 or 1988. The Peugeot 504 on which I learned to drive had > four-wheel indpendent suspension 13 years earlier. vw have been 4-wheel independent since the 30's. those french citroen 2cv's were in the 40's. the fiat 500 was independent in the 50's. it's basically only detroit garbage that is /still/ being sold with horse-and-cart solid axles. > > And the emissions and safety requirements are different, too. > > Jeff
From: IYM "S U N on 11 Feb 2010 07:56
Hachiroku ハチロク wrote: > On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 22:08:38 -0500, clare wrote: > >> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:03:57 -0500, Hachiroku ???? <Trueno(a)e86.GTS> wrote: >> >>> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:13:48 -0500, Mike Hunter wrote: >>> >>> >>>> That is largest number of different types of vehicles, as well as the >>>> highest total number, ever recalled by ANY other vehicle manufacturer >>>> in history according the AP story. >>> >>> Bullshit. Ford had a recall of 12M vehicles for exploding cruise >>> controls. >>> >>> >> You need to look at the total number of vehicles each company had on the >> road at the time of the recalls, and the number involved. >> >> The percentage of Toyotas on the road subject to recall, even with the >> MASSIVE recalls currently under way, are significantly lower than the >> percentage of either Ford or GM over the years. > > You're preaching to the chior. Over the years GM Ford and Chysler have > recalled millions and millions of vehicles for even more serious issues > than this; Ford even got away with issuing dashboard stickers for > transmissions that could slip from Park to Reverse. OMG! I remember that! But it wasn't that they would slip into reverse...I had a '76 Ford Granada with a automatic tranny that when you put it in park it occasionally wouldn't engage fully in the tranny, but on the column it was fine. The first time I discovered this, I had parked it on a very slight incline, got out of the car and started to walk away and then I heard "tick-tick-tick-tick..." getting progressively faster and looked to see the car rolling away! Had to run after it, unlock it while moving and jump in to hit the brake...Glad there was nothing around! lol Thier fix at the time was to issue a letter that said that this might happen and you should use the parking brake to prevent it from happening... lmao! NO car companies would not get away with that now, but Ford is a much different and better company now than in the 70's....and you have to remember too - Recalls were a "growing" evolution of car manufacturers and Gov'ts during that time. Back in the 60's 50's, 40's - There were no recalls...Things that happened on cars were considered "quirks" and owners were much more involved in the maintenance and fix of the cars than they are today's consumers, who demand 100% perfection all the time - no mistakes. So to say that "they got away with..." when you are referencing anything before, oh say around 1980 is kind of unfair. In fact, wasn't it the whole Ford Pinto gas tank thing in the 70's that really got the Gov't involved and the whole ball rolling on recalls and manufacturer's responsibility? |