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From: JoeSpareBedroom on 24 Nov 2009 17:30 "ByTor" <ByTor(a)snowdog.com> wrote in message news:0088318f$0$23808$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com... >> >> http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week735/exclusive.html > > A very interesting read but.............. > > I think I would have to have a position in order to offer some kind of > opinion on what the premise of that article was about, religion. I think > in all fairness I would say that I'm neutral about it but more leaning > on the side that it's a non-issue for me. I have my own personal > opinions about the issues that are discussed but it's definately not > motivated from a *religious* aspect as I am *not* a practicing anything. > I personally don't care for all this religious stuff influencing > anything, but I do have to be open minded & fair because a majority of > this country & the world believes in some sort of being, while I don't, > I still respect religious beliefs, and I am by no means one of those > atheist/agnostics that will go out of my way to shove my beliefs down > their throats either.....I just ask to repectfully be left alone. > > What I don't respect is *interference* by religion in government > affairs. But Cuomo did say that the seperation of church & state is a > *curtain* & not well defined, unfortunately though religious beliefs do > play a key part in our elections as well. I wish the abortion issue > would go away at every election, I think we may actually get something > done if that's not *ALWAYS* a major issue every election & influences > votes but it is a reality in our society. Look what's happening with the > healthcare debate, it's boiling down to once again a religious issue??? > Can't get away from it.........;0) > No politician is sincere when they inject religion into politics. It's a tool, a ploy, or whatever you want to call it. That's why I use the term "fake saints" to describe these politicians. Here's a perfect and prominent example of a fake saint using religion to turn around his political fortunes: http://www.slate.com/id/2161566/
From: Jeff Strickland on 24 Nov 2009 17:34 "ByTor" <ByTor(a)snowdog.com> wrote in message news:0087ca61$0$26886$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com... > In article <XxSOm.37651$We2.20473(a)newsfe09.iad>, > newstrash(a)frontiernet.net says... >> >> "ByTor" <ByTor(a)snowdog.com> wrote in message >> news:00c5070c$0$6707$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com... >> > In article <foqng5ph5eplj7spb8el7j6gncvac9cntm(a)4ax.com>, >> > MoveOn(a)outa.here says... >> >> >> > But, while I like the fact that she keeps them off balance I'm sort of >> > putting her in the same category as Obama, *popular* but yet seriously >> > *inexperienced*. I honestly don't think I would be comfortable with her >> > in a high position of power. Yes she got a raw deal during the >> > campaigns >> > & I feel totally treated with disrespect far more than I have ever seen >> > any other candidate treated but her *victim* routine is not enough for >> > me to ever consider her for a high position of power. She has three >> > things in common with Obama; Inexperienced, popularity, and she would >> > have the goal at being the *first* woman president as Obama is the >> > first >> > black president. All three are NOT qualifications to be president. >> > >> > Bottom line, unless she *TOTALLY* suprises me with some sort of >> > newfound >> > brilliance (I'm not saying she's stupid) I would not vote for her. >> >> >> I spoke last week with an 88 year old neighbor who went on one of those >> honor flights to Washington ( http://www.honorflight.org/ ). McCain met >> briefly with his group. The neighbor said McCain seemed pretty frail. >> After >> a pause, he said it was pretty scary to think of who his running mate >> was. >> He said he was a Republican, he'd voted the party line for years, but if >> the >> party propped her to run in the next election, it would be the last time >> he >> voted Republican. > > Basically though I am putting both Obama & Palin in the same category so > I won't take sides on the Palin bashing, Obama squeaked by, more on the > fact that people were fed up with Bush & the republicans, I think his > vote was more of an *EMOTIONAL* one just as Palin's vote *now* would be > an *EMOTIONAL* one & to *stick* it to Democrats........So it's business > as usual & a vote for her would be the same motivations as the vote for > Obama. > > I'd agree that McCain hosed himself with picking Palin but in all > fairness the spread of votes really weren't that far apart so I guess > that other almost 1/2 of the country didn't feel as hesitant. McCain had > one *HUGE* advantage in the *emotional* vote, he was a war hero & people > do respect that and put it in high regard, especially the tortures he > endured, but in my view I did not allow that to *cloud* my judgement of > him. Calling him frail & some of the other demeaning things they have > said about him I think disrespects him & I would refuse to fall along > that line of thinking.........I mean look what they did to Bob Dole, I > found that dispicable & uncalled for. I don't think Palin ran the McCain Train off the rails. I think he was off the rails already. I accept the idea that perhaps he could have righted the train with a different VP pick, maybe. But picking Palin for a running mate isn't what did him in. Indeed, he could have played her differently and that could have put the train on the rails again, maybe. The likeability factor of Sarah Palin is pretty high, mostly for many of the same reasons her detractors detract. She is likeable because she's just like the average Joe on the street, except for the mayor and governor thing that she did. She sees things logically and people like that. She could have been cut loose by the McCain Team and she would have shredded Obama's credibility. How, she would ask, could anybody sit in Sunday Services for 20-some odd years and not hear the preacher damn America? How could anybody baptise a child in such a hateful environment? How, she would ask, could a Presdiential hopeful's Wife be permitted to say, "In my adult life I have never been proud to call myself an American, until now," and not be challenged by anybody? How could a man share a seat on a board of directors with a known and admitted American Terrorist and launch his political career from his living room, and then pretend they are just passing acquaintances? The Titanic and the iceburg are just passing acquaintances, Custer and the indians were passing acquaintances. Had Custer sat down to dinner and a few beers and had the indians over to his fort so they could spend time with his family, then the indians might not have done him in because by then they aren't passing acquaintances anymore. Sarah Palin could have asked these kinds of questions, and _maybe_ that would have helped right the McCain Train and put it back on the rails. Maybe. Obama is like a bait-and-switch at the TV Store. They advertise a 60" Sony flat screen, but there's only one. Everybody else gets a 13" Emerson. Or worse, they advertise the Sony but don't have any, don't intend to ever have any.
From: JoeSpareBedroom on 24 Nov 2009 17:47 "Scott in Florida" <MoveOn(a)outa.here> wrote in message news:d1oog5h31t3evmpe97m4cmb3radcha011m(a)4ax.com... > On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:30:49 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom" > <newstrash(a)frontiernet.net> wrote: > >>No politician is sincere when they inject religion into politics. > > What a stupid statement.... > > but you make them continually....who is surprised???? > > -- > > Scott in Florida Maybe you're right. Show me one politician who is sincere when mentioning religion in the political arena.
From: ByTor on 24 Nov 2009 17:49 In article <o8ZOm.39776$X01.748(a)newsfe07.iad>, newstrash(a)frontiernet.net says... > > "ByTor" <ByTor(a)snowdog.com> wrote in message > news:0088318f$0$23808$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com... > >> > >> http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week735/exclusive.html > > > > A very interesting read but.............. > > > > I think I would have to have a position in order to offer some kind of > > opinion on what the premise of that article was about, religion. I think > > in all fairness I would say that I'm neutral about it but more leaning > > on the side that it's a non-issue for me. I have my own personal > > opinions about the issues that are discussed but it's definately not > > motivated from a *religious* aspect as I am *not* a practicing anything. > > I personally don't care for all this religious stuff influencing > > anything, but I do have to be open minded & fair because a majority of > > this country & the world believes in some sort of being, while I don't, > > I still respect religious beliefs, and I am by no means one of those > > atheist/agnostics that will go out of my way to shove my beliefs down > > their throats either.....I just ask to repectfully be left alone. > > > > What I don't respect is *interference* by religion in government > > affairs. But Cuomo did say that the seperation of church & state is a > > *curtain* & not well defined, unfortunately though religious beliefs do > > play a key part in our elections as well. I wish the abortion issue > > would go away at every election, I think we may actually get something > > done if that's not *ALWAYS* a major issue every election & influences > > votes but it is a reality in our society. Look what's happening with the > > healthcare debate, it's boiling down to once again a religious issue??? > > Can't get away from it.........;0) > > > > > No politician is sincere when they inject religion into politics. It's a > tool, a ploy, or whatever you want to call it. That's why I use the term > "fake saints" to describe these politicians. Here's a perfect and prominent > example of a fake saint using religion to turn around his political > fortunes: > > http://www.slate.com/id/2161566/ Like I said Joe its hard for me to discuss an issue like this & I'm not suprised that there is hypocrisy as you are pointing out with the above article. I don't hold politicians to *high* standards like that, but I would have to agree to the phrase "walk the talk" but that rarely happens in politics & people's personal lives, I don't get caught up in all these stupid scandals, no one is perfect.........But what's happening & what is speculated about the demise of the republican party is that these politicians are *bending* their principles instead of standing by them. While some may see the repubs as the just say *no* party maybe they are finally getting it by *standing* their ground, because for 8 years they sure as hell didn't do that, they bended more than they stayed straight.
From: ByTor on 24 Nov 2009 18:02
In article <hehn28$gbc$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, crwlrjeff(a)yahoo.com says... > > "ByTor" <ByTor(a)snowdog.com> wrote in message > news:0087ca61$0$26886$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com... > > In article <XxSOm.37651$We2.20473(a)newsfe09.iad>, > > newstrash(a)frontiernet.net says... > >> > >> "ByTor" <ByTor(a)snowdog.com> wrote in message > >> news:00c5070c$0$6707$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com... > >> > In article <foqng5ph5eplj7spb8el7j6gncvac9cntm(a)4ax.com>, > >> > MoveOn(a)outa.here says... > >> >> > >> > But, while I like the fact that she keeps them off balance I'm sort of > >> > putting her in the same category as Obama, *popular* but yet seriously > >> > *inexperienced*. I honestly don't think I would be comfortable with her > >> > in a high position of power. Yes she got a raw deal during the > >> > campaigns > >> > & I feel totally treated with disrespect far more than I have ever seen > >> > any other candidate treated but her *victim* routine is not enough for > >> > me to ever consider her for a high position of power. She has three > >> > things in common with Obama; Inexperienced, popularity, and she would > >> > have the goal at being the *first* woman president as Obama is the > >> > first > >> > black president. All three are NOT qualifications to be president. > >> > > >> > Bottom line, unless she *TOTALLY* suprises me with some sort of > >> > newfound > >> > brilliance (I'm not saying she's stupid) I would not vote for her. > >> > >> > >> I spoke last week with an 88 year old neighbor who went on one of those > >> honor flights to Washington ( http://www.honorflight.org/ ). McCain met > >> briefly with his group. The neighbor said McCain seemed pretty frail. > >> After > >> a pause, he said it was pretty scary to think of who his running mate > >> was. > >> He said he was a Republican, he'd voted the party line for years, but if > >> the > >> party propped her to run in the next election, it would be the last time > >> he > >> voted Republican. > > > > Basically though I am putting both Obama & Palin in the same category so > > I won't take sides on the Palin bashing, Obama squeaked by, more on the > > fact that people were fed up with Bush & the republicans, I think his > > vote was more of an *EMOTIONAL* one just as Palin's vote *now* would be > > an *EMOTIONAL* one & to *stick* it to Democrats........So it's business > > as usual & a vote for her would be the same motivations as the vote for > > Obama. > > > > I'd agree that McCain hosed himself with picking Palin but in all > > fairness the spread of votes really weren't that far apart so I guess > > that other almost 1/2 of the country didn't feel as hesitant. McCain had > > one *HUGE* advantage in the *emotional* vote, he was a war hero & people > > do respect that and put it in high regard, especially the tortures he > > endured, but in my view I did not allow that to *cloud* my judgement of > > him. Calling him frail & some of the other demeaning things they have > > said about him I think disrespects him & I would refuse to fall along > > that line of thinking.........I mean look what they did to Bob Dole, I > > found that dispicable & uncalled for. > > I don't think Palin ran the McCain Train off the rails. I think he was off > the rails already. > > I accept the idea that perhaps he could have righted the train with a > different VP pick, maybe. But picking Palin for a running mate isn't what > did him in. Indeed, he could have played her differently and that could have > put the train on the rails again, maybe. I guess maybe that's what I'm trying to say. I'm by no means saying she is a stupid person but there was just to many questions about her as she was a *mystery* in many peoples eyes, the opposition & media honed in on that to their benefit. > The likeability factor of Sarah Palin is pretty high, mostly for many of the > same reasons her detractors detract. She is likeable because she's just like > the average Joe on the street, except for the mayor and governor thing that > she did. She sees things logically and people like that. She could have been > cut loose by the McCain Team and she would have shredded Obama's > credibility. How, she would ask, could anybody sit in Sunday Services for > 20-some odd years and not hear the preacher damn America? How could anybody > baptise a child in such a hateful environment? How, she would ask, could a > Presdiential hopeful's Wife be permitted to say, "In my adult life I have > never been proud to call myself an American, until now," and not be > challenged by anybody? How could a man share a seat on a board of directors > with a known and admitted American Terrorist and launch his political career > from his living room, and then pretend they are just passing acquaintances? > The Titanic and the iceburg are just passing acquaintances, Custer and the > indians were passing acquaintances. Had Custer sat down to dinner and a few > beers and had the indians over to his fort so they could spend time with his > family, then the indians might not have done him in because by then they > aren't passing acquaintances anymore. This is where the *mystery* factor is as well with Obama that I compared with Palin.........An unknown, mysteriously jetted into the spotlight. The left got what they wanted demeaning Palin but gave Obama a pass on his aquaintances, that to me I could never forgive and is probably the biggest irresponsibility in journalism I have ever witnessed in my life. But they attacked Palin to discredit McCain, and that was a bad decision & tactic on his part I think, so I do agree with you, Palin did not do him in *personally* it was his decision that brought it upon himself, he should have seen this coming. > Sarah Palin could have asked these kinds of questions, and _maybe_ that > would have helped right the McCain Train and put it back on the rails. > Maybe. Well if I remember from the campaign she was the one, or used as a vehicle, in expressing these issues....her palling around with terrorists comment was a BAD move I think, the left media were given a BOMB to exploit her on......sad. > Obama is like a bait-and-switch at the TV Store. They advertise a 60" Sony > flat screen, but there's only one. Everybody else gets a 13" Emerson. Or > worse, they advertise the Sony but don't have any, don't intend to ever have > any. Yes I agree......Unfortunatly until these candidates get in there & see what's really going on I am always skeptical about anything they say in campaigns, it's a hard judgement to make but I think when they get into the office & REALITY smacks them in the face all that rhetoric & ideologoly they spewed goes right out the window. But I do agree again, so far things have been very disappointing, at least in my eyes. |