Toyota struggles to stop runaway crisis
in [Toyota]
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From: Mike Hunter on 8 Feb 2010 18:48 (Cross posting deleted, automatically) YABUT, YABUT, YABUT ;) "Ed White" <ce.white3(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:be763b1c-545f-4032-a6a9-7208691fd08c(a)j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com... > On Feb 7, 10:47 am, Hachiroku ハチロク <Tru...(a)e86.GTS> wrote: >> On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 09:30:47 -0500, Mike Hunter wrote: >> > (Cross postings deleted, automatically) >> >> > Get real! No manufacturer has ever had any government required >> > recall(s) that total as many as are currently being recalled by Toyota. >> > Certainly not nearly as many that involve this many deaths and untold >> > numbers of injuries >> >> Really? This is the 5th largest recall of all time. >> >> Better google Ford Transmission Recall. THey got out of it by sending you >> an orange sticker to put on your dash that said "WARNING! This Motor >> Vehicle may go from Park to Reverse at anytime without warning. Do not >> leave vehicle idling." > > Your wording is a little off, but the gist is correct. I think it said > "apply the parkig brake if you leave your car idling" or something > like that. It dfinitely didn't say the cars were prone to jumping out > of park. My parents had Fords during that period and I remember the > stickers coming in the mail. We tossed them out since we never had any > problems with the transmissions jumping out of park and I don't know > wanyone else who did either, but I am from a flat part of the > country. > > I assume almost all of your text was copied from the Center for Auto > Safety, a trail lawyer sposored site. They have a vested interest in > trumping up defects. Just imagine what CAS will have to say about > Toyotas.......Get back to me in a year and tell me how fair they > treated Toyota over this concern. Then think about fair they were to > Ford back in the 80's. I bet if it had been Toyotas that were alleged > to jump out of park, you would have been sure it was the Customer's > fault. > > Ed >
From: Mike Hunter on 8 Feb 2010 18:59 (Cross posting deleted, automatically) YABUT, YABUT, YABUT ;) Get real! If you do a bit of research you will discover it was not Fords fault, it was the tires made by Firestone, a division of the Japanese tire company Bridgestone, that was proven to be the cause by the NHTSA and the courts. Explorers with General tires did not have a problem and many of the Explorers that received new General tires from Ford are STILL on the road today and NOT rolling over. The number one vehicle turned in under the Clunkers program were 1984 to 1988 Explorers with an average of 200,000 to 500,000 miles on the odometer, according to news reports. ;) "Ed White" <ce.white3(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:f6f98b48-e51c-4569-80c0-986904b9f4a5(a)y7g2000vbb.googlegroups.com... On Feb 8, 7:26 am, SMS <scharf.ste...(a)geemail.com> wrote: > Hachiroku ???? wrote: > > On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 09:42:01 -0500, Mike Hunter wrote: > > >> Ford was proven to not be at fault, dummy. > > > TOYOTA has been proven to not be at fault! > > It was CTS that made the accelerators in China. > > > The recall does NOT apply to accelerators provided by DENSO. > > Whether it's the tires Ford used or the accelerator pedals Toyota used > it's no excuse to blame the supplier. > > Ford used the larger P235 tires even though they were more prone to > rollover in their tests than the P225 tires, and the P235 tires were the > ones that were recalled. Ford also used lower tire pressure than > Firestone recommended because they wanted more "grip" and the lower than > normal pressure increased the heat on the tires which led to the tread > separation. Ford was as much, or more, to blame as Firestone/Bridgestone. > > No doubt Toyota decided that the non-Denso part was going to be cheaper, > and they used it instead of the part used in Japan. > > The difference is in how the companies responded to the recalls. Ford > blamed Bridgestone. Toyota acknowledged that they were at fault.
From: Mike Hunter on 8 Feb 2010 19:02 Ford is the ONLY manufacturer today that INCLUDES the tires in their warranty. Every other manufacturer sends you to the particular tire manufacturer for tire warranty claims "Ed White" <ce.white3(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:a919ef1b-344f-49c7-b0e1-1cad39d8dd65(a)k11g2000vbe.googlegroups.com... On Feb 8, 7:26 am, SMS <scharf.ste...(a)geemail.com> wrote: > Hachiroku ???? wrote: > The difference is in how the companies responded to the recalls. Ford > blamed Bridgestone. Toyota acknowledged that they were at fault. It was clearly defective tires that led to the problems (Explorers with Goodyear tires did not have unusual tire problems). Remember Ford recalled all the tires even when Bridgestone/Firestone tried to divert the blame. I can agree that Ford made a mistake when they didn't exercise enough control over their supplier (Bridgestone), but when push came to shove, they did the right thing and recalled all the tires even when Bridgestone wouldn't (they even recalled tires installed on Rangers). If you check the IIHS statics for Explorers from the 1990's you'll find that 4 door Explorers were among the safest of all mid-sized SUVs (only the Grand Cherokee was safer). The Toyota 4Runner from that era was one of the most dangerous mid-sized SUVs, even without the tire problem (and by the way, some 4Runners had exaclty the same size tires and same pressure recommendations as Explorers - they just didn't use the bad Firestone tires). Ed
From: Mike Hunter on 8 Feb 2010 19:11 A sticking pedal may retain a reached speed, but Toyotas problem includes cases of where the cars have continued to GAIN speed. That indicates a cause other than the pedal There was a report on TV about a woman who had her 2009 Corolla "fixed," only to run into the back of another car three blocks away from the dealership. She said; "I let up on the gas when the light turned red but the car kept going. I slammed on the brakes but I hit that guy before I could stop." Thankfully it was a minor collision "bwala kulusu" <bwalakulusu(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:c83cfe19-8605-4509-893c-14058ba1859b(a)r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com... > It's understandable if a sticking pedal keeps one from stopping when > there's not much time to think and react, but one has to wonder about > the stories of people driving for half a mile or more with a stuck > pedal and not being smart enough to turn off the ignition or take > their vehicle out of gear. If they're that dumb, they probably > shouldn't be driving to begin with.
From: C. E. White on 8 Feb 2010 19:14
"Tegger" <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in message news:Xns9D197C9CC43D5tegger(a)208.90.168.18... > "C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)mindspring.com> wrote in > news:hkpea5$bf8$1(a)news.eternal-september.org: > >> >> "Tegger" <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in message >> news:Xns9D178DBBAE4DBtegger(a)208.90.168.18... >>> SMS <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote in news:4b6d0234$0$1621 >>> $742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net: >>> >>>> It's pretty rare for _any_ >>>> car to not have at least a couple of recalls with the increasing >>>> complexity of vehicles. >>>> >>> >>> >>> The NHTSA currently has 40 "defect" investigations going. >>> >>> 3 cover Toyota. >>> >>> 37 cover other automakers. >> >> This is a creative (Toyota-like) distrotion of the actual facts. >> >> I am not even sure where you are getting the number "40" for >> "investigations going..." > > > > I read it in the paper the other day. That's what the reporter said. It is easy enough to verify that what I am saying is correct. http://nhthqnwws112.odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/docservlet/Artemis/Public/Pursuits/2010/INVMTY-012010-1234.pdf Given the state of journalism today, what you read in the paper is about as credible as a Mike Hunter post. Ed |