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From: SMS on 8 Oct 2009 14:35
Susan wrote:

> I just got back from PepBoys where I was going to pick up a new
> starter relay, but they have to order it, and it will cost close to
> $30 by the time they slap CA tax on it. I was thinking it was going to
> be $10 bucks. Not that I mind $30 if I know it will fix it, but if it
> doesn't I will have to buy other stuff, so I either want to find a
> cheaper vendor or test this relay somehow to see if it's actually bad.
> Thanks again for all of your help!

Well it's easy to test a relay if you take it off. It's unlikely that
it's the starter relay.

I'd suspect a starter cut-off relay if the alarm system has one, or it's
possible that the alarm is wired into the electrical system in a way
that no extra relay was needed to stop the car from starting (in our
1996 Camry the wiring harness for the after-market alarm/locks wired
directly into the vehicle's wiring without any splicing, and it disables
the starter). I had an after-market alarm in that Camry that would
periodically decide not to disarm, and left my wife stranded. That
P.O.S. "lifetime warranty" DEI alarm got torn out by me, and a more
reliable one put in that's worked for the past ten years without a problem.
From: Susan on 8 Oct 2009 15:53
On Thu, 8 Oct 2009 08:27:12 -0700 (PDT), Handyman <sgt_az(a)yahoo.com>
wrote:

> The starter is located on the passenger side of the engine just in
>front of the bell housing for the transmission. You can get to the
>spade connector to jump 12v to it from the bottom of the vehicle.
>Just slide the spade connector off and touch the metal tab with 12v
>from the battery, the starter should engage the solenoid which will
>make the high current contacts and make the starter spin to crank the
>engine. This will verify your starter is good but if you aren't
>hearing any clicks when you turn the key I still think the problem is
>up at the alarm or in the starter relay circuit.

I feel like such an idiot, but I cannot find the starter and I know
what it looks like, because I have studied many photos of people
taking it apart to replace the contacts. But many learned people have
said now, that due to the lack of clicks, it likely isn't the starter
anyway, so I am putting this on the backburner until more likely
things have been eliminated.

Namely, the alarm, as you and many others have suggested, and the
starter relay.


> If you ever need to
>remove the starter there is an access panel in the passenger side
>wheel well, you remove three bolts, slide the access panel out of the
>way and you can pull the starter out through there once you have it
>unbolted.

Good to know if it comes to this. Thanks.

> Here is another thought regarding the alarm system. Try
>disconnecting your battery and then reconnecting it to see if that
>resets the alarm.

I tried this today. Left both terminals off for 40 min, then
re-connected. Alarm went crazy as it always does when con/disc the
battery. But no joy afterwards.

I also unplugged the wire harness going to "the brain" of the alarm.
Still did not start.

> If you have the wiring diagram for the alarm you
>should be able to find the two connections for the ignition kill
>feature. If you disconnect those two wires from the alarm and connect
>them together it will remove the alarm relay from the circuit,
>defeating the ignition kill feature.

I am going to look for an installation manual for this Viper 300 right
now. I found the instruction manual, but it doesn't say how it's
wired.

> Your starter relay should be up in the driver side kick panel, up
>above the section you attached photos of. I have a 91 4x4 and my
>relay is way up there and toward the firewall.

If that starter relay is there it is seriously messing with me! The
Viper has three huge modules down there, and then there's the cruise
control module, so it isn't the easiest place to get clear line of
sight, but I took more pictures to show you what I see, and I see
nuthin'. I see a cable/wire going through the firewall... but no
relay. There *is* a rubber protective mat attached to the firewall
with clips... yours isn't behind that mat, is it?

Also, I am thrilled you have the 91 4x4 too, but is yours the M/T?
This is the auto 3VZ V6, and from what I understand, it is extremely
hard to work on, compared to the 22RE.

Am off to find wiring diagrams for the alarm...
From: Susan on 8 Oct 2009 15:57
On Thu, 08 Oct 2009 11:35:53 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com>
wrote:

>I'd suspect a starter cut-off relay if the alarm system has one, or it's
>possible that the alarm is wired into the electrical system in a way
>that no extra relay was needed to stop the car from starting (in our
>1996 Camry the wiring harness for the after-market alarm/locks wired
>directly into the vehicle's wiring without any splicing, and it disables
>the starter). I had an after-market alarm in that Camry that would
>periodically decide not to disarm, and left my wife stranded. That
>P.O.S. "lifetime warranty" DEI alarm got torn out by me, and a more
>reliable one put in that's worked for the past ten years without a problem.

This alarm has never given me a moment's problem, but if it turns out
to be the culprit and whatever the fix is is a PITA, it will also be
history, though removing it will be a *real* PITA. Not just because of
the gazillions of wires, but because the angle of working there kills
the neck!! Would have to remove the front seat to make it easier for
such a long job. Or take it to someone, but it would likely be
expensive to remove it.
From: Susan on 8 Oct 2009 19:12
Thanks to the help I got here, I was finally able to spy the starter
tucked way up behind the wheel well. I used a wooden dowel and a
hammer to give it some love taps, and the truck started right up!

That's the good news.

The bad news is I guess I will have to pull it sometime soon to
replace the contacts so this doesn't happen again, right? Or do the
"brushes" get stuck after sitting for 10 weeks like that? What would
you good people recommend?

I can't thank everyone enough for their support, tips and input. I
have learned so much that I'm sure will come in handy. I turned the
truck off, as from messing with the alarm wires, the jkeyfob won't
control the power locks now, so I need to figure that out, and clean
my little Tonka Toy, then take it for a ride. I hope when I go to
start it, it starts right up until I get a chance to do whatever needs
doing. :) YAY!! I'm so happy.
From: someone on 8 Oct 2009 19:35
In article <q5ssc5t6h99u6ko60mgj2vob6hb8sle4o5(a)4ax.com>, Susan (It Started!) <susan(a)rooftop.com> wrote:
>Thanks to the help I got here, I was finally able to spy the starter
>tucked way up behind the wheel well. I used a wooden dowel and a
>hammer to give it some love taps, and the truck started right up!
>
>That's the good news.
>
>The bad news is I guess I will have to pull it sometime soon to
>replace the contacts so this doesn't happen again, right? Or do the
>"brushes" get stuck after sitting for 10 weeks like that? What would
>you good people recommend?
>
>I can't thank everyone enough for their support, tips and input. I
>have learned so much that I'm sure will come in handy. I turned the
>truck off, as from messing with the alarm wires, the jkeyfob won't
>control the power locks now, so I need to figure that out, and clean
>my little Tonka Toy, then take it for a ride. I hope when I go to
>start it, it starts right up until I get a chance to do whatever needs
>doing. :) YAY!! I'm so happy.
get a diagram and see. if it has mechanical parts, some switch cleaner may
help.
but get all the fobs right first!
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