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From: Susan on 7 Oct 2009 14:59
On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 22:37:10 -0400, clare(a)snyder.on.ca wrote:

>99.999% it is not the alarm.
>
>I'm coming in late, so please forgive me if I'm asking questions that
>have been answered.
>
>I was Toyota service manager back just before that truck was made.
>
>Does the horn work?
>How about the headlights?
>If the headlights work, do they go out when you try to start the
>truck?

Everything works great. Horn, lights, radio, dash lights, everything.
Battery was checked with a charger and tested fully charged. Is also a
newer battery, and terminals are clean and tight.

Lights do not dim, even a little, when I turn the key to try to start
it. No click. No crank. Silence.

When key is in ON position, all dash warning lights are on, like
normal.

>First check is terminals - must be clean and bright - and tight.
> Next is the ground connection. Same as above. put a battery jumper
>cable from the battery - to a good clean engine ground and try again.
>If no joy, go to a clean body/chassis ground and try again.

Excellent, solid ground off neg terminal to body chassis, but tried
anyway as suggested and this wasn't it.


>Is this a 4 cyl or a six?

V6

>if a 4 the starter can be seen on the right? side of the block(just
>going from memory) facing forward from the frot of the
>transmission/bell housing. It will have 2 wires(or at least terminals
>- could be more wires) - one BIG battery cable with 12 or 14mm nut,
>and one smaller wire - either 8mm nut or slip-on type connector. make
>sure both are connected and "clean, bright, and tight".
>Do NOT attempt to tighten or even apply a wrench without disconnecting
>the battery - (ground) connection.
>
>There should be 12 volts on the big one at all times, and on the
>little one when cranking (or attempting to).
>If there is power on the big one, but not the little one, you have a
>control circuit problem - bad ign switch, bat neutral safety switch,
>or that 0.0001% chance - an alarm problem.

>Jumping power from the big terminal to the little one should crank the
>engine. if it doesn't, and all other (previous) tests check out, you
>need a starter..Or at .least need ir repaired. A worn or stuck starter
>brush can prevent the starter solenoid from pulling in - particularly
>if there is any resistance in the control circuit. Whacking the
>starter with a block of wood while attempting to crank will often get
>it to start - at least once- in order to drive it to a shop to have
>the starter done.

>If it is a six, the starter location will be harder to get to, but the
>tests remain the same.
>
>Keep us up to date with what you find.

Thanks for that. I will probably need to test these things, but since
they are difficult for me to find and do, I am going to see if I can
Google on how to check the starter relay... it would be REALLY NICE if
that's all it needed! :)

From: Susan on 7 Oct 2009 16:55
I found an auto parts place that thinks they can get the starter relay
I need at their shop by 3pm today, and it was only $20, so I'm giving
this a try. It still seems more likely to me than contacts (on either
the neutral switch or starter), because the problem appeared all at
once, and it seems like corroding or dirty contacts would cause
intermittent problems as they are corroding or getting dirty. But if
this isn't it, then contacts are next, and I might have to take it
somewhere if that's the case, because I think the starter might be
buried on this truck. (Though I will try again to find it.)

I hope I hope I hope this works! Will post the result.
From: clare on 7 Oct 2009 17:38
On Wed, 07 Oct 2009 11:43:20 -0700, Susan <susan(a)rooftop.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 01:21:11 -0600, Oldphart
><mfj1952deletethis(a)cox.net> wrote:
>
>>I wish I could say one way or another that the alarm has nothing to
>>do with it, but if the lights come on, the horn works, the radio plays,
>>and all of those things stay on, then there is something that is
>>preventing power from going to the starter solenoid. [...]
>
>Righto.
>
>>If you can find the relay that is engergized by turning the key to the
>>"start" position, that would be a big start.
>
>I double-checked the relay I found under the hood (over the passenger
>fender in the fuse block box), and according to the awful Chilton
>manual I have, this *is* the starter relay. (I say awful because, for
>example, the picture that matches my truck is for the 4Runner, while
>the picture that is supposed to by my 1991 truck does not match what
>that block looks like at all.)
>
>>I have a wiring diagram for a 1993 toyota pickup 4wd ex cab which most
>>likely will be very similar to yours. I would be glad to send a copy
>>if you would like. Simple trouble shooting can start there and then
>>follow the trail of power till you lose it. Most likely, there is a
>>relay somewhere that is not energizing.
>
>I would very much like a copy of the wiring diagram, even for future
>use. If I cannot find one online, I will email you with my mailing
>address, if you really don't mind putting it in the mail.
>
>I just got back from PepBoys where I was going to pick up a new
>starter relay, but they have to order it, and it will cost close to
>$30 by the time they slap CA tax on it. I was thinking it was going to
>be $10 bucks. Not that I mind $30 if I know it will fix it, but if it
>doesn't I will have to buy other stuff, so I either want to find a
>cheaper vendor or test this relay somehow to see if it's actually bad.
>Thanks again for all of your help!
Take a look at the relay and just jumper the 2 contacts -= see if it
cranks. If it does, might be the relay, might be the control circuit.
If it doesn't crank, it's not the relay's fault.
From: clare on 7 Oct 2009 18:38
Is that a 28300-16010 relay - green with 4 terminals?
I believe the terminals are numbered 1-4 - looking at the bottom of
the relay, with the "latch" side towards you, 1 ans 2 or on the right,
3 and 4 on the left. 1 and 2 are the coil - should be about 60 ohms,
and 3 and 4 are the contacts. If you jump 3 and 4 in the socket the
engine should crank.

Possible the terminals may be numbered 30, 85, 86, and 87
30 and 87 would be the contacts, and 85 and 86 the coil. Jumper 30
and 87 to test the starter.

Putting a testlight acros 85/86 or 1/2 the testlight should light when
in crank position. If it does the control circuit (ignition switch and
neutral safety switch) are OK. If they are OK and it cranks when
jumpering 3/4, the relay IS your problem. If either the starter does
not crank when jumpered or there is no power to the coil connections,
it is NOT the relay.

Clear enough??

To test on the bench put 12 volts to 1/2 - it should click. If it
clicks, an ohmeter across 1/2 should show 0 ohms (or very close)
(closed circuit) when energized, and infinity (open circuit) when
de-energized.

On that relay, it is virtually impossible to hurt the relay when
testing with 12 volts. ONE PAIR will cause the relay to click. put +
wire on one trminal, and touch - to all others in turn. You should get
a click somewhere. If you don't, put the + on a different terminal and
try again. Keep trying until you get the pair that clicks. The other 2
are the ones you want to jump in the socket.. If you don't get a click
with any combination, the relay is FUBAR.
From: Susan on 7 Oct 2009 19:06
On Wed, 07 Oct 2009 17:38:47 -0400, clare(a)snyder.on.ca wrote:

>Take a look at the relay and just jumper the 2 contacts -= see if it
>cranks. If it does, might be the relay, might be the control circuit.
>If it doesn't crank, it's not the relay's fault.

Thanks. Unfortunately I was already gone to pick up the part. It
wasn't the relay's fault, because I bought a new one, and it didn't
fix it.
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