91 SR5 4x4 won't turn over
in [Toyota Trucks]
|
Prev: Brakes unable to stop runaway Lexus in California?
Next: Toyota/Lexus Runaway Fix Not Limited to Floor Mats (!)
From: Anyolmouse on 7 Oct 2009 19:17 "Susan" <susan(a)rooftop.com> wrote in message news:paelc51g2pmcftnsdrtsh7vjdg1mhcaoc6(a)4ax.com... <SNIPPED> > Now comes the part that might change your mind. :) I have owned the > truck since 2001, and during this time I have disconnected the battery > many times. A few times to change batteries, other times when I was > working on the truck and needed to disconnect the battery to do what I > was doing. Whenever I have disconnected the battery, the alarm > triggers as I am loosening the terminals (safety thing), then again as > I am reconnecting it (same deal). I DREAD having to disconnect the > battery for that reason.... the alarm is so darn loud. But the point > is, it has never given me a problem afterwards. The truck has always > started right up. If the alarm circuit disables starting by opening the circuit that powers your starter relay it may well be the alarm IS causing the problem. As the OP suggested later in this thread to jumper the relay contacts to see if it will start; you can also see if the coil voltage is there by using a test probe or vom/dvm across the relay coil plug contacts. This will tell you if the alarm is preventing the voltage from getting to the relay coil. Hence- no click > Also, when I parked the truck last (last time I drove it, when > everything was peachy), I parked it in my backyard, so I did not lock > it. Meaning the alarm was not engaged. Now weeks later, I walk out and > go to start it, and ... nothing. AND the battery did not die during > this period or even get weak b/c a solar panel was keeping it charged. > > Nevertheless, when the truck would not start I wondered about the > alarm system just because I was trying to cover everything it might > be, so I threw the alarm's toggle switch and tried starting, but it > didn't make a diff. I put the toggle back. I also sat inside the truck > and put the alarm on, then took it off, and tried again. <SNIPPED> -- We have met the enemy and he is us-- Pogo Anyolmouse
From: Susan on 7 Oct 2009 20:27 On Wed, 07 Oct 2009 18:38:13 -0400, clare(a)snyder.on.ca wrote: >Is that a 28300-16010 relay - green with 4 terminals? No, the original was a reddish-brown color (but I saw that most of these trucks had a green one). >I believe the terminals are numbered 1-4 - looking at the bottom of >the relay, with the "latch" side towards you, 1 ans 2 or on the right, >3 and 4 on the left. I posted pictures of the old relay and the new one, and put letters on the terminals in hopes you could tell me what letter to match to which number, cause I'm not sure how to hold it or what part of the thing is considered the 'latch'. http://bydesklight.com/SR.html > 1 and 2 are the coil - should be about 60 ohms, >and 3 and 4 are the contacts. If you jump 3 and 4 in the socket the >engine should crank. When you say to jump it in the socket, I assume you mean I should twist the little "locks" in the corners to lift off the plastic housing, then install it in the truck, then jump 3 and 4, right? >Possible the terminals may be numbered 30, 85, 86, and 87 >30 and 87 would be the contacts, and 85 and 86 the coil. Jumper 30 >and 87 to test the starter. Okay, same test as above... soon as I learn which contact is which... >Putting a testlight acros 85/86 or 1/2 the testlight should light when >in crank position. If it does the control circuit (ignition switch and >neutral safety switch) are OK. This is excellent to know! >If they are OK and it cranks when >jumpering 3/4, the relay IS your problem. So, I don't expect this result since I tried a new relay... but will try it just the same on the miniscule offchance both the old AND new relays are bad... > If either the starter does >not crank when jumpered or there is no power to the coil connections, >it is NOT the relay. > >Clear enough?? Will be soon! :) >To test on the bench put 12 volts to 1/2 - it should click. Great! Will do this as soon as I'm done here and report. > If it clicks, an ohmeter across 1/2 should show 0 ohms (or very close) >(closed circuit) when energized, and infinity (open circuit) when >de-energized. Excellent. >On that relay, it is virtually impossible to hurt the relay when >testing with 12 volts. ONE PAIR will cause the relay to click. put + >wire on one trminal, and touch - to all others in turn. You should get >a click somewhere. If you don't, put the + on a different terminal and >try again. Keep trying until you get the pair that clicks. The other 2 >are the ones you want to jump in the socket.. If you don't get a click >with any combination, the relay is FUBAR. This has been so very helpful. Thank you so much for taking the time to write all this out! I'm off to do this right now.
From: Susan on 7 Oct 2009 23:15 On Wed, 07 Oct 2009 17:27:17 -0700, Susan <susan(a)rooftop.com> wrote: >> 1 and 2 are the coil - should be about 60 ohms, >>and 3 and 4 are the contacts. If you jump 3 and 4 in the socket the >>engine should crank. > >When you say to jump it in the socket, I assume you mean I should >twist the little "locks" in the corners to lift off the plastic >housing, then install it in the truck, then jump 3 and 4, right? Nevermind! I realized you either just jump the sockets without the relay, or insert a wire, then plug in the relay, but you don't take the relay apart. I am keeping all these instructions for when I find the starter relay, because in trying this stuff tonight, I realized the relay I replaced is the HEADLAMP relay. When I jumped 3 and 4 the headlights came on. The plastic cover on this block also says "HEAD" over the relay I replaced, but I thought this was the starter relay because I don't have one at the kick panel, where the majority of them are (on this model, from what I understand). I figured the cover was mismarked. GUESS NOT. And now I'm starting to wonder if the alarm IS involved, because I have to wonder if they took OUT the starter relay when they installed the alarm... like maybe because it has it's own relay built in. Because it is installed right there at the kick panel, where the relay should be. I took some pics of the kick panel block, and made a note where the Chilton manual says the starter relay should be: http://bydesklight.com/SR.html
From: Susan on 8 Oct 2009 01:28 On Wed, 07 Oct 2009 20:15:20 -0700, Susan <susan(a)rooftop.com> wrote: >And now I'm starting to wonder if the alarm IS involved, because I >have to wonder if they took OUT the starter relay when they installed >the alarm... like maybe because it has it's own relay built in. >Because it is installed right there at the kick panel, where the relay >should be. > >I took some pics of the kick panel block, and made a note where the >Chilton manual says the starter relay should be: > >http://bydesklight.com/SR.html Adding to my own post... Oldphart and Jeff might be right after all. I looked up the alarm, a VIPER 300, and downloaded the manual. It doesn't say anything about replacing the starter relay, but does have an optional starter bypass feature (I'm not sure mine has this), aside from the usual "will not start" if something is hokey. But here's the thing... in trying to enter Valet Mode (as per the manual) I noticed something and realized it has been this way since all this started... the dash LED is on steady, verses the usual flashing about twice-per-second. I hadn't noticed because I haven't been using the alarm since I parked it in the backyard, so I wasn't paying attn to the dash alarm LED until tonight. But in thinking back, I realize that LED has been steady all along, instead of flashing like it usually does when operating normally. According to the manual, when the LED is steady you are in Valet Mode. Oddly, the alarm should be "off" in Valet Mode, and the engine should start. When I take it out of Valet Mode, the LED goes off... but as soon as I arm the vehicle, the LED comes on and stays on steady again, rather than flashing 2x/sec like it should. So, even if this isn't causing the problem (and I hope to god it is), the alarm *is* in some funkified state, cause the LED is not behaving like it normally does. I am studying the manual tonight, and will work on this first thing tomorrow! Even if it's NOT the problem, I need to eliminate the possibility by getting it working normally again, before I move on to other possibilities. But I hope Jeff and Oldphart are right! But even if I reset the alarm and it fixes everything, I *still* want to know where the heck my starter relay is! :)
From: Handyman on 8 Oct 2009 11:27
On Oct 7, 1:55 pm, Susan <su...(a)rooftop.com> wrote: > I found an auto parts place that thinks they can get the starter relay > I need at their shop by 3pm today, and it was only $20, so I'm giving > this a try. It still seems more likely to me than contacts (on either > the neutral switch or starter), because the problem appeared all at > once, and it seems like corroding or dirty contacts would cause > intermittent problems as they are corroding or getting dirty. But if > this isn't it, then contacts are next, and I might have to take it > somewhere if that's the case, because I think the starter might be > buried on this truck. (Though I will try again to find it.) > > I hope I hope I hope this works! Will post the result. The starter is located on the passenger side of the engine just in front of the bell housing for the transmission. You can get to the spade connector to jump 12v to it from the bottom of the vehicle. Just slide the spade connector off and touch the metal tab with 12v from the battery, the starter should engage the solenoid which will make the high current contacts and make the starter spin to crank the engine. This will verify your starter is good but if you aren't hearing any clicks when you turn the key I still think the problem is up at the alarm or in the starter relay circuit. If you ever need to remove the starter there is an access panel in the passenger side wheel well, you remove three bolts, slide the access panel out of the way and you can pull the starter out through there once you have it unbolted. Here is another thought regarding the alarm system. Try disconnecting your battery and then reconnecting it to see if that resets the alarm. If you have the wiring diagram for the alarm you should be able to find the two connections for the ignition kill feature. If you disconnect those two wires from the alarm and connect them together it will remove the alarm relay from the circuit, defeating the ignition kill feature. Your starter relay should be up in the driver side kick panel, up above the section you attached photos of. I have a 91 4x4 and my relay is way up there and toward the firewall. |