Toyota blocks access to 'black box' data
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From: dsi1 on 5 Mar 2010 20:06 On 3/5/2010 2:17 PM, Mark wrote: > > I said it a few weeks ago , I say it again.. Toyota should publish > the source code for the throttle control on the Internet for public > review. This is the only way to clear the software if there is no > problem, and if there is a problem, some hot shot SW guy will find it. > > Mark Personally, I think it's a problem with software and faulty inputs but I guess you have to start somewhere. I don't think Toyota is going to make public their software. Maybe all cars should be using all the same operating software. How about Windows 3.0? :-)
From: dsi1 on 5 Mar 2010 20:11 On 3/5/2010 2:28 PM, Al Falfa wrote: > > > "dsi1" <dsi1(a)humuhumunukunukuapuapa.org> wrote in message > news:hSfkn.3639$jt1.2086(a)newsfe01.iad... >> On 3/5/2010 12:35 PM, Jeff Strickland wrote: >>> "dsi1"<dsi1(a)humuhumunukunukuapuapa.org> wrote in message >>> news:mufkn.69282$Ye4.2974(a)newsfe11.iad... >>>> On 3/5/2010 11:57 AM, Jeff Strickland wrote: >>>>> "dsi1"<dsi1(a)humuhumunukunukuapuapa.org> wrote in message >>>>> news:dpekn.4274$3D3.1562(a)newsfe19.iad... >>>>>> On 3/5/2010 10:21 AM, Jeff Strickland wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When MSoft or Apple develope products that can kill me while you are >>>>>>> using >>>>>>> them, then we can discuss whether the codesets they use should be >>>>>>> proprietary or not. Right now, automakers are producing products >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> can >>>>>>> kill you if used the way they are intended, and they are hiding >>>>>>> behind >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> idea that the data stored is their data or your data. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Soon or later is the problem. It should be sooner rather than later. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> It will happen sooner than later so consider your wish granted. >>>>>> There's >>>>>> no >>>>>> doubt in my mind that the government will mandate that all cars shall >>>>>> have >>>>>> this electronic monitoring using the rational that this product >>>>>> can kill >>>>>> you as justification. Just remember that you asked for it. >>>>>> >>>>>> The truth is that soon, many consumer products will be recording our >>>>>> behaviors and I don't much care for that. Even hearing aid are >>>>>> recording >>>>>> data these days. That's modern life for you. :-) >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I'm not arguing that there should or should not be data. I'm >>>>> arguing that >>>>> if >>>>> there IS data, it's mine not the automakers'. >>>>> >>>>> I'm not here to call for Big Brother to hide under the back seat of my >>>>> car. >>>>> I'm here to say that if there is a window to what my car is doing AND >>>>> that >>>>> window is already in my car, then I should be allowed to pry the >>>>> window >>>>> open >>>>> to see through it. The window ought not be locked shut in the name of >>>>> protecting the automaker. Indeed, if there is anybody in the equation >>>>> that >>>>> needs to be protected, it's you and I not the automaker. >>>>> >>>> >>>> My guess is that in most cases, this data will be used against the >>>> driver >>>> because, in most cases, it's driver error that causes most accidents >>>> not a >>>> malfunctioning of the car therefore, making this information available >>>> will not be in the best interest of the consumer. Not to worry though - >>>> you're get what you wish for soon enough. >>>> >>> >>> Be that as it is, Toyota is buying off claimants because the data >>> apparently >>> shows that the car was at fault, not the claimant. >>> >>> TODAY, the data is proprietary, and Toyota is keeping the secret and >>> settling out of court because if it faces the plaintiff, the data >>> will show >>> Toyota is culpable. >>> >> >> I think it's likely that there is some electronic glitch causing >> problems with their cars and that Toyota is completely in the dark >> about how to solve this problem. When this all blows over, we'll be >> able to give a proper analysis of the situation and in hindsight, what >> Toyota should have done. Today I'm not going to worry about it. :-) > > I heard they plan to upgrade to Windows 7. Not a minute too soon. My understanding is that MS Vista for Toyota has a few problems. One of them being that you need at least a V6 to run it. :-)
From: jim beam on 6 Mar 2010 09:47 On 03/05/2010 07:18 AM, Tom Adams wrote: > On Mar 4, 9:42�pm, john<johngd...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >> That must be Toyota's way of taking the 5th! >> >> Before she died, the 5-foot-2, 125-pound woman told relatives she was >> practically standing with both feet on the brake pedal but could not >> stop the car from slamming into a building. Records confirm that >> emergency personnel found Grossman with both feet on the brake pedal. >> >> Toyota has for years blocked access to data stored in devices similar >> to airline "black boxes" that could explain crashes blamed on sudden >> unintended acceleration, according to an Associated Press review of >> lawsuits nationwide and interviews with auto crash experts. >> >> Full article at:http://finance.yahoo.com/news/AP-IMPACT-Toyota-secretive-on-apf-12944... > > Toyota's EDRs probably are lousy. The main reason for car makers > putting in an EDR in the first place was for accident analysis to > avoid liability and sort our fact from fiction. The fact that Toyota > has had trouble doing this for the accelerator problem is evidence of > lack of useful data in the EDR. Its not like Toyota can't read the > black box in their own cars. exactly. -- nomina rutrum rutrum
From: jim beam on 6 Mar 2010 09:48 On 03/05/2010 05:03 AM, C. E. White wrote: > "john"<johngdole(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:0dbebe1e-d08d-4e40-94b0-f3708655765e(a)c37g2000prb.googlegroups.com... >> That must be Toyota's way of taking the 5th! >> >> Before she died, the 5-foot-2, 125-pound woman told relatives she >> was >> practically standing with both feet on the brake pedal but could not >> stop the car from slamming into a building. Records confirm that >> emergency personnel found Grossman with both feet on the brake >> pedal. >> >> Toyota has for years blocked access to data stored in devices >> similar >> to airline "black boxes" that could explain crashes blamed on sudden >> unintended acceleration, according to an Associated Press review of >> lawsuits nationwide and interviews with auto crash experts. >> >> Full article at: >> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/AP-IMPACT-Toyota-secretive-on-apf-1294427692.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=1&asset=&ccode= > > Toyota has agreed to make the equipment needed to read the black box > data available. From > http://www.autoweek.com/article/20100225/CARNEWS/100229931 : > > "Reacting to criticism that data from black-box crash recorders in its > vehicles can be accessed only by the company, Toyota Motor Corp. is > moving to ship hundreds of data-decoding machines to the United States > and make them commercially available to help diagnose vehicle > problems." > > Ed > > astroturfer ed trying to look like he's a concerned citizen. -- nomina rutrum rutrum
From: jim beam on 6 Mar 2010 10:35
On 03/05/2010 06:51 AM, C. E. White wrote: > "Elmo P. Shagnasty"<elmop(a)nastydesigns.com> wrote in message > news:elmop-84E137.08334305032010(a)nothing.attdns.com... >> In article >> <4e08f574-e7ae-4f01-a649-30a0a6cf40ec(a)t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>, >> ransley<Mark_Ransley(a)Yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>> Buy a Ford feed 10 US families, Buy a Toyota feed 10 Jap >>> families. >> >> Buy a Ford feed 100 Mexican families, buy a Toyota and feed 10 >> American >> families. > > Neither is true. And the fact is, despite assembling some cars in > Mexico, Ford averages the highest domestic content of any company > selling cars in the US. > > Let do a quick fact check...The Ford Hermosillo Mexico plant employs > around 2,700 people (probably not all Mexican, but we will ignore > that). The plant produces around 210,000 Fusion, Milans, and MKZ's a > year. Do the math, it takes almost 80 cars to pay the salary of one > worker for the year. So I guess you could say, buy a Ford Fusion, feed > 0.0125 Mexican families for a year. Or buy a Ford Fusion and fedd a > Mexican family for 4.6 days. Of course, at the same time you will also > be feeding familes in the US, China, Japan, etc., etc. > > BTW, last time I checked, Mexico was consideredd part of North > America. I think Mexicans and Canadians can be considered "Americans." > Of course this brings up the question of what is really the correct > term for residents of the United States of America so as to avoid > being confused with residents o North, Central, and South America. > > The US Government has actively encouraged US companies to set up shop > in Mexico. If you don't like the practice, you should write your > Congress person. > > Ed > > straight from detroit, right ed? you're not an astroturfer! -- nomina rutrum rutrum |