Toyota blocks access to 'black box' data
in [Toyota Prius]
|
Prev: Drivers report trouble with fixed Toyotas
Next: Toyota Provided No Evidence of Testing Electronic Throttle to US Congress
From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 5 Mar 2010 12:43 On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 05:32:45 -0800, ransley wrote: > On Mar 4, 10:15 pm, Hachiroku ハチロク <Tru...(a)e86.GTS> wrote: >> On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 18:42:19 -0800, john wrote: >> > Toyota has for years blocked access to data stored in devices similar >> > to airline "black boxes" >> >> So has everyone else, putz. >> >> Here's a hint for you: don't like Toyotas? DON'T BUY ONE! > > So who pays you, and what does your Japanese Signature really mean, { > Toyota forever]? [we won at Pearl Harbor] ? . Get on a junk and float > back to your island. No one pays me. Who pays 'john' to post and run? Nobody says anyone has to drive a Toyota. And, pardon me, you ignorance is showing.
From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 5 Mar 2010 12:46 On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 04:03:43 -0800, ransley wrote: >> > Toyota has for years blocked access to data stored in devices similar >> > to airline "black boxes" >> >> So has everyone else, putz. >> >> Here's a hint for you: don't like Toyotas? DON'T BUY ONE! > > Why is he a Puts for telling it like it is, He doesn't. Where has he mentioned anything but Toyota, even though a lot of car companies keep their data to themselves? He comes, and posts, and then runs away. Basically, a Troll. Good for you for defending him.
From: Jeff Strickland on 5 Mar 2010 12:56 "Ray O" <rokigawa(a)NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote in message news:hmpudl$e4c$2(a)news.eternal-september.org... > > "Jeff Strickland" <crwlrjeff(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:hmprgv$srb$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >> >> "john" <johngdole(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message >> news:0dbebe1e-d08d-4e40-94b0-f3708655765e(a)c37g2000prb.googlegroups.com... >>> That must be Toyota's way of taking the 5th! >>> >>> Before she died, the 5-foot-2, 125-pound woman told relatives she was >>> practically standing with both feet on the brake pedal but could not >>> stop the car from slamming into a building. Records confirm that >>> emergency personnel found Grossman with both feet on the brake pedal. >>> >>> Toyota has for years blocked access to data stored in devices similar >>> to airline "black boxes" that could explain crashes blamed on sudden >>> unintended acceleration, according to an Associated Press review of >>> lawsuits nationwide and interviews with auto crash experts. >>> >>> Full article at: >>> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/AP-IMPACT-Toyota-secretive-on-apf-1294427692.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=1&asset=&ccode= >>> >> >> It's time that black box data comes into the public domain. Just like OBD >> II data has been found to be public domain, black box data should be >> public domain as well. >> >> It's my car, it's my data. >> > > EDR's will become required equipment soon, the regulations are already in > place. > -- Yeah, but the data they contain needs to be standardized. Today, the data is sorta like the old OBD I spec, it was there but it took a variety of methods to get to it, depending on the make and model of the car they needed to get the data out of. The data needs to be standardized to facilitate extraction and analysis.
From: Jeff Strickland on 5 Mar 2010 13:04 "dsi1" <dsi1(a)humuhumunukunukuapuapa.org> wrote in message news:D8%jn.69090$Ye4.53425(a)newsfe11.iad... > On 3/4/2010 4:49 PM, Jeff Strickland wrote: >> "john"<johngdole(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message >> news:0dbebe1e-d08d-4e40-94b0-f3708655765e(a)c37g2000prb.googlegroups.com... >>> That must be Toyota's way of taking the 5th! >>> >>> Before she died, the 5-foot-2, 125-pound woman told relatives she was >>> practically standing with both feet on the brake pedal but could not >>> stop the car from slamming into a building. Records confirm that >>> emergency personnel found Grossman with both feet on the brake pedal. >>> >>> Toyota has for years blocked access to data stored in devices similar >>> to airline "black boxes" that could explain crashes blamed on sudden >>> unintended acceleration, according to an Associated Press review of >>> lawsuits nationwide and interviews with auto crash experts. >>> >>> Full article at: >>> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/AP-IMPACT-Toyota-secretive-on-apf-1294427692.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=1&asset=&ccode= >>> >> >> It's time that black box data comes into the public domain. Just like OBD >> II >> data has been found to be public domain, black box data should be public >> domain as well. >> >> It's my car, it's my data. > > > The data is available to you now. I see no reason why you couldn't hook up > a laptop to your present car and record everything at the data port in > real time. There's probably a market for a recorder that is simply plugged > into the port for later uploading although I doubt that most people would > actually buy something like that. > > But not to worry, your car will soon be sending out data while you're > driving. Recording data is easy now that all the subsystems on cars are > being monitored. Add GPS and wireless capabilities and you're on your way > to a brighter future. :-) Soon we'll be able to track most any car and > pull info on it. You might be able to pull data from it too but I'm not so > sure that it's gonna be your data. I think the government and the > automobile manufacturers may have first dibs on that one. :-) > > > You're not following along very well. Toyota (specifically) and others have the data in a proprietary format, and there was only one computer in the USA that was able to read it. Toyota recently sent three more computers, so now there are four that can read the Toyota data set from the black box. It is coming to light that the boxes contain data that Toyota has spent millions of dollars to NOT divulge on the basis of "industry secret," or some such claim. I'm not taking aim at Toyota, per se. My position is that black boxes should be public domain so that the data set can be used by the vehicle owner and his agent. If there is a reason to hide the data, that reason should be that the consumer (owner) is the one that needs to be protected, not the vehicle maker. Toyota's position is that black boxes contain information that would make Toyota look bad, and therefore the data should be hidden. If Toyota wants to avoid looking bad, then it can either fix its cars or stop selling them. Toyota can use the data, if it fits, to show its innocence if somebody is suing, but it ought not be able to hide the data to protect it from liability.
From: dsi1 on 5 Mar 2010 14:01
On 3/5/2010 8:04 AM, Jeff Strickland wrote: > "dsi1"<dsi1(a)humuhumunukunukuapuapa.org> wrote in message > news:D8%jn.69090$Ye4.53425(a)newsfe11.iad... >> On 3/4/2010 4:49 PM, Jeff Strickland wrote: >>> "john"<johngdole(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message >>> news:0dbebe1e-d08d-4e40-94b0-f3708655765e(a)c37g2000prb.googlegroups.com... >>>> That must be Toyota's way of taking the 5th! >>>> >>>> Before she died, the 5-foot-2, 125-pound woman told relatives she was >>>> practically standing with both feet on the brake pedal but could not >>>> stop the car from slamming into a building. Records confirm that >>>> emergency personnel found Grossman with both feet on the brake pedal. >>>> >>>> Toyota has for years blocked access to data stored in devices similar >>>> to airline "black boxes" that could explain crashes blamed on sudden >>>> unintended acceleration, according to an Associated Press review of >>>> lawsuits nationwide and interviews with auto crash experts. >>>> >>>> Full article at: >>>> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/AP-IMPACT-Toyota-secretive-on-apf-1294427692.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=1&asset=&ccode= >>>> >>> >>> It's time that black box data comes into the public domain. Just like OBD >>> II >>> data has been found to be public domain, black box data should be public >>> domain as well. >>> >>> It's my car, it's my data. >> >> >> The data is available to you now. I see no reason why you couldn't hook up >> a laptop to your present car and record everything at the data port in >> real time. There's probably a market for a recorder that is simply plugged >> into the port for later uploading although I doubt that most people would >> actually buy something like that. >> >> But not to worry, your car will soon be sending out data while you're >> driving. Recording data is easy now that all the subsystems on cars are >> being monitored. Add GPS and wireless capabilities and you're on your way >> to a brighter future. :-) Soon we'll be able to track most any car and >> pull info on it. You might be able to pull data from it too but I'm not so >> sure that it's gonna be your data. I think the government and the >> automobile manufacturers may have first dibs on that one. :-) >> >> >> > > You're not following along very well. Toyota (specifically) and others have > the data in a proprietary format, and there was only one computer in the USA > that was able to read it. Toyota recently sent three more computers, so now > there are four that can read the Toyota data set from the black box. It is > coming to light that the boxes contain data that Toyota has spent millions > of dollars to NOT divulge on the basis of "industry secret," or some such > claim. If Toyota wants to call this data proprietary why not? Microsoft and Apple have their proprietary data. I hate to break the news to you but most companies have info they consider for internal use only. Do you have a right to that stuff too? All I'm saying is that with a little work, you can record data from your car in real time yourself. > > I'm not taking aim at Toyota, per se. My position is that black boxes should > be public domain so that the data set can be used by the vehicle owner and > his agent. If there is a reason to hide the data, that reason should be that > the consumer (owner) is the one that needs to be protected, not the vehicle > maker. Toyota's position is that black boxes contain information that would > make Toyota look bad, and therefore the data should be hidden. If Toyota > wants to avoid looking bad, then it can either fix its cars or stop selling > them. Toyota can use the data, if it fits, to show its innocence if somebody > is suing, but it ought not be able to hide the data to protect it from > liability. > Sooner or later, Toyota and others will make this data available and this kind of data will be available to accident investigations in the future. That seems to be inevitable and there's not much use in getting excited about the inevitable. It's likely that drivers as a group will be hurt by this technology as in most cases, it will be considered solid proof of their idiotic behavior. That's the breaks but that's what comes from opening this Pandora's box. :-) |