Toyota Runaway Cause: Electronic Throttle/Cruise Control?
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From: dsi1 on 10 Nov 2009 03:24 hls wrote: > > "Vic Smith" <thismailautodeleted(a)comcast.net> wrote in message > news:barhf5perc5qjl7erdbkvbbvev0qkcc6jb(a)4ax.com... > >> But I never drove an auto Ford. >> Seems with my Chevys once you bring the shift lever all the way up >> until it stops you're in park. And it stays there. Every time. >> So far. >> >> --Vic > > With the Fords I had, they also stopped in Park. Once that parking pawl > was > set, they were not going anywhere, but there is plenty of documentation > that > mine were perhaps lucky experiences. > > With certain models of GM with rear disc brakes, you could have problems > with those parking brakes. These brakes had mechanical adjusters, and > applied the rear caliper pistons manually when the brake was set. The > problem > was that the adjusters often didnt adjust, and the parking brakes > wouldnt hold > for sour apples. The truth is that the parking brake that actuate on disk brakes are not very good. Drums require less of a load on the friction material - possibly because there's more surface area making contact on the drum and also because the brake shoes have a self-locking action on the brake drum. Some cars with four wheel disks will also have mini-brake drums used exclusively for the parking brake function. It would be great if someone came up with a positive disk brake locking system. As it is, the disk brake parking brakes I've seen are based on those used on 60s Fiats - ha ha ha.
From: Al Falfa on 9 Nov 2009 23:28 "E. Meyer" <epmeyer50(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:C71E468E.13782%epmeyer50(a)gmail.com... > > > > On 11/9/09 8:42 PM, in article 4af8d31f$1(a)newsgate.x-privat.org, "Al > Falfa" > <crop(a)eastforty.fld> wrote: > >> >> "Vic Smith" <thismailautodeleted(a)comcast.net> wrote in message >> news:o5ghf55evnloee9me5bh2cpvq04ci88njn(a)4ax.com... >>> On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 18:50:37 -0600, "Al Falfa" <crop(a)eastforty.fld> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> "Sharx35" <sharx35(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message >>>> news:md1Km.52154$PH1.8219(a)edtnps82... >>>>> >>>>> "Al Falfa" <crop(a)eastforty.fld> wrote in message >>>>> news:4af876a7$1(a)newsgate.x-privat.org... >>>>>> >>>>>> "E. Meyer" <epmeyer50(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >>>>>> news:C71DA903.1376D%epmeyer50(a)gmail.com... >>>>>>> Paranoia at the time smeared across all Fords and for a while, all >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> could >>>>>>> find in the used car lots were used Fords as people dumped them for >>>>>>> anything >>>>>>> else. I got a really nice '70 Torino wagon for $150 at the height >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> craziness. Drove it for 6 months until things settled down & sold >>>>>>> it >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> $500. >>>>>>> >>>>>> A friend of mine was crushed to death while unloading the trunk of >>>>>> her >>>>>> Ford when it jumped from park into reverse. Then, of course, there >>>>>> were >>>>>> the exploding gas tanks on those Chevrolet and GMC pickups. Tort >>>>>> reform. >>>>>> That's the answer. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> What kind of idiot would unload the trunk with the engine running and >>>>> the >>>>> Parking Brake not engaged? >>>> The parking brake was engaged. >>> >>> If it was the car wouldn't have moved. >>> But anyway, I never knew a driver that would thing twice about opening >>> the trunk with a car running in park. >>> Anybody who says they've never done it is probably lying. >>> Might be some anal types who use a parking break in flatlands. >>> I never do, and often get in the trunk or check trans fluid level with >>> the engine running and the parking brake not set. >>> Just put it in park. >>> Oh, I'm a real daredevil, ain't I? Evic Ksmith I am. >>> Might be more careful with a strange car, and use the e-brake, >>> but maybe not. Park is park. >>> Fords have had a number of these supposed incidents. >>> There was a supervisor who had his legs broken by a Ford sedan in the >>> steel mills where I worked in 1968. >>> I'm not convinced they weren't "user error." >>> Was it ever proved they could slip from park? >>> Has that ever been determine for ANY car? >>> Most likely the cars were left in gear. Many autos can sit still in >>> gear waiting for a slight engine surge to get them rolling. >>> >>> --Vic >> >> Start here: >> >> http://www.autosafety.org/srr/FP-R.pdf >> >> Much of this stuff predates the 'net. My friend was killed in the early >> 80s. Ford settled that one. >> >> > > Most of this also predates auto recalls. Actually, this is the sort of > stuff that led to the recall system. > Take another look at that link. Recalls are mentioned.
From: C. E. White on 10 Nov 2009 11:42 "Al Falfa" <crop(a)eastforty.fld> wrote in message news:4af99336$2(a)newsgate.x-privat.org... > > "E. Meyer" <epmeyer50(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > news:C71E468E.13782%epmeyer50(a)gmail.com... >> >> >> >> On 11/9/09 8:42 PM, in article 4af8d31f$1(a)newsgate.x-privat.org, >> "Al Falfa" >> <crop(a)eastforty.fld> wrote: >> >>> >>> "Vic Smith" <thismailautodeleted(a)comcast.net> wrote in message >>> news:o5ghf55evnloee9me5bh2cpvq04ci88njn(a)4ax.com... >>>> On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 18:50:37 -0600, "Al Falfa" >>>> <crop(a)eastforty.fld> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Sharx35" <sharx35(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:md1Km.52154$PH1.8219(a)edtnps82... >>>>>> >>>>>> "Al Falfa" <crop(a)eastforty.fld> wrote in message >>>>>> news:4af876a7$1(a)newsgate.x-privat.org... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "E. Meyer" <epmeyer50(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:C71DA903.1376D%epmeyer50(a)gmail.com... >>>>>>>> Paranoia at the time smeared across all Fords and for a >>>>>>>> while, all you >>>>>>>> could >>>>>>>> find in the used car lots were used Fords as people dumped >>>>>>>> them for >>>>>>>> anything >>>>>>>> else. I got a really nice '70 Torino wagon for $150 at the >>>>>>>> height of >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> craziness. Drove it for 6 months until things settled down & >>>>>>>> sold it >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> $500. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> A friend of mine was crushed to death while unloading the >>>>>>> trunk of her >>>>>>> Ford when it jumped from park into reverse. Then, of course, >>>>>>> there >>>>>>> were >>>>>>> the exploding gas tanks on those Chevrolet and GMC pickups. >>>>>>> Tort >>>>>>> reform. >>>>>>> That's the answer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> What kind of idiot would unload the trunk with the engine >>>>>> running and >>>>>> the >>>>>> Parking Brake not engaged? >>>>> The parking brake was engaged. >>>> >>>> If it was the car wouldn't have moved. >>>> But anyway, I never knew a driver that would thing twice about >>>> opening >>>> the trunk with a car running in park. >>>> Anybody who says they've never done it is probably lying. >>>> Might be some anal types who use a parking break in flatlands. >>>> I never do, and often get in the trunk or check trans fluid level >>>> with >>>> the engine running and the parking brake not set. >>>> Just put it in park. >>>> Oh, I'm a real daredevil, ain't I? Evic Ksmith I am. >>>> Might be more careful with a strange car, and use the e-brake, >>>> but maybe not. Park is park. >>>> Fords have had a number of these supposed incidents. >>>> There was a supervisor who had his legs broken by a Ford sedan in >>>> the >>>> steel mills where I worked in 1968. >>>> I'm not convinced they weren't "user error." >>>> Was it ever proved they could slip from park? >>>> Has that ever been determine for ANY car? >>>> Most likely the cars were left in gear. Many autos can sit still >>>> in >>>> gear waiting for a slight engine surge to get them rolling. >>>> >>>> --Vic >>> >>> Start here: >>> >>> http://www.autosafety.org/srr/FP-R.pdf >>> >>> Much of this stuff predates the 'net. My friend was killed in the >>> early >>> 80s. Ford settled that one. >>> >>> >> >> Most of this also predates auto recalls. Actually, this is the >> sort of >> stuff that led to the recall system. >> > > Take another look at that link. Recalls are mentioned. I remember that whole era. People were not careful about making sure the transmission was in park. Ford sent my parents stickers for the dash to remind the driver to put the car securely in park and apply the parking brake before exiting the car with the engine running. This was another trial lawyer driven frenzy. No one every wants to admit their incompetence/stupiditiy was the actual cause of an accident. Much more fun to hire a trial lawyer and sue a company with deep pockets. The only car I ever had "jump out of park" was the POS Cressida we owned. And I didn't think it was the cars fault then. But since nobody was injured, there was no point in trying to blame Toyota....too bad, I suppose if I had run over my foot, I might have been able to sue Toyota for big bucks...isn't that the American way?. Interestingly, in the late 80's/early 90's the house next to mine at the time had multiple cars crash through their side yard. The house across the street was up a significant hill from the heighbors house. Three different times they had cars roll down their driveway, across the street, and into the neighbors side yard. None of the cars were same (a Ford, a Toyota, and a Buick as I recall). Evey time the across the street neighboor swore the cars were in park. Of course when the cars were pulled out of the neighbors yard, they never were (lever near park, key still in the ignition)....so obviously they mysteriously jumped out of park. The problems stopped when the nighbors up the hill moved (hope they moved to some place flat). Ed
From: E. Meyer on 10 Nov 2009 11:46 On 11/9/09 10:28 PM, in article 4af99336$2(a)newsgate.x-privat.org, "Al Falfa" <crop(a)eastforty.fld> wrote: > > "E. Meyer" <epmeyer50(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > news:C71E468E.13782%epmeyer50(a)gmail.com... >> >> >> >> On 11/9/09 8:42 PM, in article 4af8d31f$1(a)newsgate.x-privat.org, "Al >> Falfa" >> <crop(a)eastforty.fld> wrote: >> >>> >>> "Vic Smith" <thismailautodeleted(a)comcast.net> wrote in message >>> news:o5ghf55evnloee9me5bh2cpvq04ci88njn(a)4ax.com... >>>> On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 18:50:37 -0600, "Al Falfa" <crop(a)eastforty.fld> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Sharx35" <sharx35(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:md1Km.52154$PH1.8219(a)edtnps82... >>>>>> >>>>>> "Al Falfa" <crop(a)eastforty.fld> wrote in message >>>>>> news:4af876a7$1(a)newsgate.x-privat.org... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "E. Meyer" <epmeyer50(a)gmail.com> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:C71DA903.1376D%epmeyer50(a)gmail.com... >>>>>>>> Paranoia at the time smeared across all Fords and for a while, all >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> could >>>>>>>> find in the used car lots were used Fords as people dumped them for >>>>>>>> anything >>>>>>>> else. I got a really nice '70 Torino wagon for $150 at the height >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> craziness. Drove it for 6 months until things settled down & sold >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> $500. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> A friend of mine was crushed to death while unloading the trunk of >>>>>>> her >>>>>>> Ford when it jumped from park into reverse. Then, of course, there >>>>>>> were >>>>>>> the exploding gas tanks on those Chevrolet and GMC pickups. Tort >>>>>>> reform. >>>>>>> That's the answer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> What kind of idiot would unload the trunk with the engine running and >>>>>> the >>>>>> Parking Brake not engaged? >>>>> The parking brake was engaged. >>>> >>>> If it was the car wouldn't have moved. >>>> But anyway, I never knew a driver that would thing twice about opening >>>> the trunk with a car running in park. >>>> Anybody who says they've never done it is probably lying. >>>> Might be some anal types who use a parking break in flatlands. >>>> I never do, and often get in the trunk or check trans fluid level with >>>> the engine running and the parking brake not set. >>>> Just put it in park. >>>> Oh, I'm a real daredevil, ain't I? Evic Ksmith I am. >>>> Might be more careful with a strange car, and use the e-brake, >>>> but maybe not. Park is park. >>>> Fords have had a number of these supposed incidents. >>>> There was a supervisor who had his legs broken by a Ford sedan in the >>>> steel mills where I worked in 1968. >>>> I'm not convinced they weren't "user error." >>>> Was it ever proved they could slip from park? >>>> Has that ever been determine for ANY car? >>>> Most likely the cars were left in gear. Many autos can sit still in >>>> gear waiting for a slight engine surge to get them rolling. >>>> >>>> --Vic >>> >>> Start here: >>> >>> http://www.autosafety.org/srr/FP-R.pdf >>> >>> Much of this stuff predates the 'net. My friend was killed in the early >>> 80s. Ford settled that one. >>> >>> >> >> Most of this also predates auto recalls. Actually, this is the sort of >> stuff that led to the recall system. >> > > Take another look at that link. Recalls are mentioned. > I did say "most", not "all". Much of this discussion has been set in the '60s & '70s. I see the word "recall" in the list of stuff at that link. The interesting title is "Why no Recall", which sort of implies the whole thing was groundless.
From: Mike Hunter on 10 Nov 2009 12:48
YA Right and the tooth fairy left that quarter under your pillow. LOL "Al Falfa" <crop(a)eastforty.fld> wrote in message news:4af8b8ed$1(a)newsgate.x-privat.org... > >>> A friend of mine was crushed to death while unloading the trunk of her >>> Ford when it jumped from park into reverse. Then, of course, there were >>> the exploding gas tanks on those Chevrolet and GMC pickups. Tort >>> reform. That's the answer. >>> >>> >>> >> >> What kind of idiot would unload the trunk with the engine running and the >> Parking Brake not engaged? > The parking brake was engaged. > |