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From: jim beam on 19 Feb 2010 11:27 On 02/19/2010 08:02 AM, C. E. White wrote: > "Tegger"<invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in message > news:Xns9D24620A2D893tegger(a)208.90.168.18... >> Ashton Crusher<demi(a)moore.net> wrote in >> news:i18sn5t528ekjj8sfhec66no9ovvk22h23(a)4ax.com: >> >>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:56:56 +0000 (UTC), Tegger >>> <invalid(a)invalid.inv> >>> wrote: >>> >> >>>> >>>> >>>> The "big mess" is in the media alone. So far, ONE death confirmed >>>> as >>>> being specifically due to a stuck gas pedal. >>> >>> >>> 34 deaths. >>> >> >> >> Can you tell me where that number comes from? I'd like to see the >> source(s) >> behind it. > > IF you beleive the news media it is based on the latest total as > reported to NHTSA. And it appears to include all UA complaints, not > necessarily ones related to the stuck gas pedals. 13 of the claims are > very recent (and therefore somewhat open to question). 21 are earlier. > > See > http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/15/national/main6210052.shtml > > (AP) The government has received new complaints that bring to 34 the > total number of alleged deaths in Toyota vehicles due to sudden > acceleration since 2000, according to government data posted Monday. > > The government has received complaints during the past three weeks > alleging 13 deaths. The deaths allegedly tied to this problem happened > in nine crashes between 2005 and 2010. > > From 2000 to 2009, complaints alleging 21 deaths in Toyota vehicles > had been filed with the government. > > the paid sociopath presenting allegations and hysteria as "fact". how true to form. -- nomina rutrum rutrum
From: Tegger on 19 Feb 2010 14:07 "C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)mindspring.com> wrote in news:hlmd9h$ndj$1 @news.eternal-september.org: > > "Tegger" <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in message > news:Xns9D24620A2D893tegger(a)208.90.168.18... >> Ashton Crusher <demi(a)moore.net> wrote in >> news:i18sn5t528ekjj8sfhec66no9ovvk22h23(a)4ax.com: >> >>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:56:56 +0000 (UTC), Tegger >>> <invalid(a)invalid.inv> >>> wrote: >>> >> >>>> >>>> >>>>The "big mess" is in the media alone. So far, ONE death confirmed >>>>as being specifically due to a stuck gas pedal. >>> >>> >>> 34 deaths. >>> >> >> >> Can you tell me where that number comes from? I'd like to see the >> source(s) >> behind it. > > IF you beleive the news media it is based on the latest total as > reported to NHTSA. And it appears to include all UA complaints, not > necessarily ones related to the stuck gas pedals. 13 of the claims are > very recent (and therefore somewhat open to question). 21 are earlier. And none of the earlier 21 were confirmed as being due to a stuck gas pedal, even after the passage of as many as nine years. > > See > http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/15/national/main6210052.shtml > > (AP) The government has received new complaints that bring to 34 the > total number of alleged deaths in Toyota vehicles due to sudden > acceleration since 2000, according to government data posted Monday. > > The government has received complaints during the past three weeks > alleging 13 deaths. The deaths allegedly tied to this problem happened > in nine crashes between 2005 and 2010. > > From 2000 to 2009, complaints alleging 21 deaths in Toyota vehicles > had been filed with the government. > > Note the exquisitely careful language in this AP article: variations of the word "allege" are placed in every clause that gives events and numbers. Also note one of the last paragraphs, quoting an NHTSA official: "Transportation Department spokeswoman Olivia Alair said in a statement it was "normal for NHTSA to receive an increase in consumer complaints after a recall is announced and the public learns of a safety defect." I restate, this time with more authority: ONE death confirmed, or NO deaths confirmed as being directly caused by a stuck gas pedal that was not due to incorrect or unsecured floor mats. -- Tegger
From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 19 Feb 2010 19:21 On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:02:31 -0500, C. E. White wrote: > > IF you beleive the news media it is based on the latest total as reported > to NHTSA. And it appears to include all UA complaints, not necessarily > ones related to the stuck gas pedals. 13 of the claims are very recent > (and therefore somewhat open to question). 21 are earlier. > > See > http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/15/national/main6210052.shtml > > (AP) The government has received new complaints that bring to 34 the > total number of alleged deaths in Toyota vehicles due to sudden > acceleration since 2000, according to government data posted Monday. How do you prove a stuck accelerator caused it? I think they're just attributing it to a SA without really knowing.
From: Tegger on 19 Feb 2010 19:51 =?iso-2022-jp?q?Hachiroku_=1B$B%O%A%m%=2F=1B=28B?= <Trueno(a)e86.GTS> wrote in news:hln9u5$oj8$1(a)news.eternal-september.org: > On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:02:31 -0500, C. E. White wrote: > >> >> IF you beleive the news media it is based on the latest total as >> reported to NHTSA. And it appears to include all UA complaints, not >> necessarily ones related to the stuck gas pedals. 13 of the claims >> are very recent (and therefore somewhat open to question). 21 are >> earlier. >> >> See >> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/15/national/main6210052.shtml >> >> (AP) The government has received new complaints that bring to 34 the >> total number of alleged deaths in Toyota vehicles due to sudden >> acceleration since 2000, according to government data posted Monday. > > > How do you prove a stuck accelerator caused it? Nobody has. Yet. And some of those "alleged" SUA incidents involved cars that didn't even have electronic gas pedals. Remember that SUA incidents are spread across just about all automakers, and always have been. I read a lot, and have a pretty good memory for certain things. Memories of the mid-'80s Audi 5000 fiasco are still fairly bright in my mind, which is partially why I am /extremely/ suspicious of the doom-and-gloom of the conspiracy and tort crowds this time around. > > I think they're just attributing it to a SA without really knowing. > Not quite. Nobody's "attributing" anything, they're just "alleging". I see the AP lawyers' fingerprints all over this article, in the variants of the word "allege" plastered everywhere; they don't want to get pinned down in court over this issue. -- Tegger
From: jim beam on 19 Feb 2010 20:29
On 02/19/2010 04:51 PM, Tegger wrote: > =?iso-2022-jp?q?Hachiroku_=1B$B%O%A%m%=2F=1B=28B?=<Trueno(a)e86.GTS> > wrote in news:hln9u5$oj8$1(a)news.eternal-september.org: > >> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:02:31 -0500, C. E. White wrote: >> >>> >>> IF you beleive the news media it is based on the latest total as >>> reported to NHTSA. And it appears to include all UA complaints, not >>> necessarily ones related to the stuck gas pedals. 13 of the claims >>> are very recent (and therefore somewhat open to question). 21 are >>> earlier. >>> >>> See >>> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/15/national/main6210052.shtml >>> >>> (AP) The government has received new complaints that bring to 34 the >>> total number of alleged deaths in Toyota vehicles due to sudden >>> acceleration since 2000, according to government data posted Monday. >> >> >> How do you prove a stuck accelerator caused it? > > > > Nobody has. Yet. And some of those "alleged" SUA incidents involved cars > that didn't even have electronic gas pedals. > > Remember that SUA incidents are spread across just about all automakers, > and always have been. > > I read a lot, and have a pretty good memory for certain things. Memories of > the mid-'80s Audi 5000 fiasco are still fairly bright in my mind, which is > partially why I am /extremely/ suspicious of the doom-and-gloom of the > conspiracy and tort crowds this time around. > > > >> >> I think they're just attributing it to a SA without really knowing. >> > > > > Not quite. Nobody's "attributing" anything, they're just "alleging". > > I see the AP lawyers' fingerprints all over this article, in the variants > of the word "allege" plastered everywhere; they don't want to get pinned > down in court over this issue. > > yes indeed. because they know it's bullshit. why exactly the press would want to get their trotters in the trough on this one though is something i haven't figured out - the political agenda is ridiculous. -- nomina rutrum rutrum |