Anyone heard of OBD III?
in [Toyota]
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From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 31 Dec 2009 14:07 On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 09:53:15 -0800, Jeff Strickland wrote: > Yeah, I got to thinking about that as soon as I hit Send. We have some sort > of transmitter on the water meter at our house, and the water company truck > drives past with a receiver that collects the signal. the same technology > could be used in reverse -- the water meter could drive past the water > company truck that collects the signal. There's a system being advertised on XM for truck drivers in order to bypass weigh stations. When you roll past the weigh station at 65 MPH it transmits the truck's data to the station, and if it looks OK a green light on the dash illuminates and you're good to go. Not much of a stretch to adapt this to rat out Logbook Liars as far as time driving, length of stops, etc. Qualcom has been equipping trucks (um, and Federal BOP buses...don't know how I know this...) with tracking systems since the late 90's.
From: Ray O on 31 Dec 2009 14:20 "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno(a)e86.GTS> wrote in message news:pan.2009.12.31.19.03.10.105830(a)e86.GTS... > On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 12:27:15 -0600, Ray O wrote: > >> >> "Jeff Strickland" <crwlrjeff(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message >> news:hhg178$fe3$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >>> >>> "Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2(a)lycos,com> wrote in message >>> news:4b3a330a$0$25296$ce5e7886(a)news-radius.ptd.net... >>>> Vehicles have had that capability at least since 2000. Eventually, >>>> where there are enough of the newer vehicles on the road, there will >>>> roadside sensors much like they currently have for trucks at weigh >>>> stations where they need not stop, to determine if your vehicle is >>>> polluting and you will no longer have required emission inspections. >>>> The information is only recorded for around eight to ten seconds. >>>> Read >>>> you owners manual, that information is in there. >>>> >>>> If you dive by and the sensor picks up your car as a polluter, you will >>>> be sent an order to have your vehicle inspected and repaired within >>>> thirty days. If you do not you will be required to send in you >>>> license >>>> plate until you have the problem corrected. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> That's a highway-based system. They don't care that the MIL is on or >>> not, >>> they can look at the exhaust of all passing cars and trucks, and if the >>> emissions are too high, they take a photo -- sort of like the Red Light >>> Camera systems that are in use. >>> >>> Not to put too fine of a point on this, if the car was going to place a >>> call to rat you out for not reacting to the MIL, then they would have to >>> put a variant of OnStar on every car built, and retrofit earlier cars. >>> The >>> bottom line is, every car on the road would require a cellphone number >>> and >>> a GPS. That's alot of cellphone numbers. >>> >> >> The communication could also be done with something like wi-fi or the >> system >> in EZ Pass automated toll collection systems. The notification wouldn't >> be >> instant, but it would be sent when the vehicle drives near the hot spot. >> This type of system wouldn't use up phone numbers although Big Brother >> would >> have to set up hot spots at various places like gas stations where >> vehicles >> have to eventually pass by. >> >> I'm not sure that even this type of system would provide an ROI that >> justified the huge cost of the infrastructure in addition to any >> additional >> cost to vehicle owners. > > > STOP GIVING THEM IDEAS!!! > > Glad you work in RE now!!! ;) > > LOL! Fortunately, the infrastructure cost to provide instant notification as soon as a vehicle's MIL comes on would be hard to justify. -- Ray O (correct punctuation to reply)
From: Ray O on 31 Dec 2009 14:22 "Jeff Strickland" <crwlrjeff(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message news:hhioek$4ri$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... > > "Ray O" <rokigawa(a)NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote in message > news:hhg62f$qe7$3(a)news.eternal-september.org... >> >> "Jeff Strickland" <crwlrjeff(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message >> news:hhg178$fe3$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >>> >>> "Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2(a)lycos,com> wrote in message >>> news:4b3a330a$0$25296$ce5e7886(a)news-radius.ptd.net... >>>> Vehicles have had that capability at least since 2000. Eventually, >>>> where there are enough of the newer vehicles on the road, there will >>>> roadside sensors much like they currently have for trucks at weigh >>>> stations where they need not stop, to determine if your vehicle is >>>> polluting and you will no longer have required emission inspections. >>>> The information is only recorded for around eight to ten seconds. >>>> Read you owners manual, that information is in there. >>>> >>>> If you dive by and the sensor picks up your car as a polluter, you will >>>> be sent an order to have your vehicle inspected and repaired within >>>> thirty days. If you do not you will be required to send in you >>>> license plate until you have the problem corrected. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> That's a highway-based system. They don't care that the MIL is on or >>> not, they can look at the exhaust of all passing cars and trucks, and if >>> the emissions are too high, they take a photo -- sort of like the Red >>> Light Camera systems that are in use. >>> >>> Not to put too fine of a point on this, if the car was going to place a >>> call to rat you out for not reacting to the MIL, then they would have to >>> put a variant of OnStar on every car built, and retrofit earlier cars. >>> The bottom line is, every car on the road would require a cellphone >>> number and a GPS. That's alot of cellphone numbers. >>> >> >> The communication could also be done with something like wi-fi or the >> system in EZ Pass automated toll collection systems. The notification >> wouldn't be instant, but it would be sent when the vehicle drives near >> the hot spot. This type of system wouldn't use up phone numbers although >> Big Brother would have to set up hot spots at various places like gas >> stations where vehicles have to eventually pass by. >> >> I'm not sure that even this type of system would provide an ROI that >> justified the huge cost of the infrastructure in addition to any >> additional cost to vehicle owners. >> -- >> > > Yeah, I got to thinking about that as soon as I hit Send. We have some > sort of transmitter on the water meter at our house, and the water company > truck drives past with a receiver that collects the signal. the same > technology could be used in reverse -- the water meter could drive past > the water company truck that collects the signal. > > That would not take a cellular hookup to gather the data. They would need > to install the receivers all over the place though. > > I think the idea has lots of problems though, starting with Big Brother is > Watching. They are getting ready to watch everybody on the assumption that > somebody is doing something wrong and must be stopped. Follow that up with > the fact that they send out a notice of fault that is in error, and there > is no way to dispute the error with the fault-finding authority. You will > be required to have your car tested, for a fee, to clear the summons. > There is no means to confront the accuser. Guilty until cleared, and the > guilty party has the burden to prove innocense instead of the charging > party proving guilt. So, at least two huge problems, they are going to > watch because you WILL slip up and they want to catch you, and they can > charge you with a violation that you can't refute. > > And, they already deny license tag renewals until you pass the Smog Test, > so there is little to no benefit to anybody if they install the Big > Brother system of watching everybody all of the time in hopes of catching > somebody driving around in a broken car. > > What is the percentage of cars that go around with the MIL turned on and > the driver ignores it for longer than it takes to get to the shop? And, of > those, what is the percentage of their contribution to whatever filth > their car adds to the filth of all of the other cars? > > I'd like to see car makers be forced to provide consumers with the same > kinds of diagnostic information they have available. I disagree with the > automakers assertion that the diagnostic information is theirs. They sold > me the car, that makes the diagnostics mine. I own the car and I own the > data it produces. I should have the same access to that data as they have, > and I should have it at a reasonable cost. > > All of the fault codes that can be gathered from a car should be available > to anybody and everybody. > > Fault codes are already available to anybody and everybody, even people who don't know how to interpret them, through OBD I and II. -- Ray O (correct punctuation to reply)
From: nm5k on 31 Dec 2009 14:55 On Dec 29, 10:52 am, "Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2(a)lycos,com> wrote: > Vehicles have had that capability at least since 2000. Eventually, where > there are enough of the newer vehicles on the road, there will roadside > sensors much like they currently have for trucks at weigh stations where > they need not stop, to determine if your vehicle is polluting and you will > no longer have required emission inspections. The information is only > recorded for around eight to ten seconds. > > If you dive by and the sensor picks up your car as a polluter, you will be > sent an order to have your vehicle inspected and repaired within thirty > days. If you do not you will be required to send in you license plate > until you have the problem corrected. They have had those roadside sniffers here for a few years. Nothing new really.. But I don't see them doing away with smog tests. It's a source of revenue.. :/ The sniffers here are mainly to find the "gross polluters". I remember I passed one one day with my 68 Ford truck. It has no emissions gear at all, but I guess it was good enough for gov work being as I never got a notice in the mail. There is no emissions test required for either one of my old trucks being as they are both over 25 years old. But they can be yanked off the road as a gross polluter if that were the case, and you passed and flunked a sniffer machine. Or got pulled over for excessive smoke, etc.. That truck runs like new though, and I wouldn't expect it to flunk. BTW, the ones I have seen are on small trailers. I guess they have built in cameras or video to spot the tag numbers.
From: Jeff Strickland on 31 Dec 2009 20:45
"Ray O" <rokigawa(a)NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote in message news:hhitou$sdm$2(a)news.eternal-september.org... > > "Jeff Strickland" <crwlrjeff(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:hhioek$4ri$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >> >> "Ray O" <rokigawa(a)NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote in message >> news:hhg62f$qe7$3(a)news.eternal-september.org... >>> >>> "Jeff Strickland" <crwlrjeff(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message >>> news:hhg178$fe3$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >>>> >>>> "Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2(a)lycos,com> wrote in message >>>> news:4b3a330a$0$25296$ce5e7886(a)news-radius.ptd.net... >>>>> Vehicles have had that capability at least since 2000. Eventually, >>>>> where there are enough of the newer vehicles on the road, there will >>>>> roadside sensors much like they currently have for trucks at weigh >>>>> stations where they need not stop, to determine if your vehicle is >>>>> polluting and you will no longer have required emission inspections. >>>>> The information is only recorded for around eight to ten seconds. Read >>>>> you owners manual, that information is in there. >>>>> >>>>> If you dive by and the sensor picks up your car as a polluter, you >>>>> will be sent an order to have your vehicle inspected and repaired >>>>> within thirty days. If you do not you will be required to send in >>>>> you license plate until you have the problem corrected. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> That's a highway-based system. They don't care that the MIL is on or >>>> not, they can look at the exhaust of all passing cars and trucks, and >>>> if the emissions are too high, they take a photo -- sort of like the >>>> Red Light Camera systems that are in use. >>>> >>>> Not to put too fine of a point on this, if the car was going to place a >>>> call to rat you out for not reacting to the MIL, then they would have >>>> to put a variant of OnStar on every car built, and retrofit earlier >>>> cars. The bottom line is, every car on the road would require a >>>> cellphone number and a GPS. That's alot of cellphone numbers. >>>> >>> >>> The communication could also be done with something like wi-fi or the >>> system in EZ Pass automated toll collection systems. The notification >>> wouldn't be instant, but it would be sent when the vehicle drives near >>> the hot spot. This type of system wouldn't use up phone numbers although >>> Big Brother would have to set up hot spots at various places like gas >>> stations where vehicles have to eventually pass by. >>> >>> I'm not sure that even this type of system would provide an ROI that >>> justified the huge cost of the infrastructure in addition to any >>> additional cost to vehicle owners. >>> -- >>> >> >> Yeah, I got to thinking about that as soon as I hit Send. We have some >> sort of transmitter on the water meter at our house, and the water >> company truck drives past with a receiver that collects the signal. the >> same technology could be used in reverse -- the water meter could drive >> past the water company truck that collects the signal. >> >> That would not take a cellular hookup to gather the data. They would need >> to install the receivers all over the place though. >> >> I think the idea has lots of problems though, starting with Big Brother >> is Watching. They are getting ready to watch everybody on the assumption >> that somebody is doing something wrong and must be stopped. Follow that >> up with the fact that they send out a notice of fault that is in error, >> and there is no way to dispute the error with the fault-finding >> authority. You will be required to have your car tested, for a fee, to >> clear the summons. There is no means to confront the accuser. Guilty >> until cleared, and the guilty party has the burden to prove innocense >> instead of the charging party proving guilt. So, at least two huge >> problems, they are going to watch because you WILL slip up and they want >> to catch you, and they can charge you with a violation that you can't >> refute. >> >> And, they already deny license tag renewals until you pass the Smog Test, >> so there is little to no benefit to anybody if they install the Big >> Brother system of watching everybody all of the time in hopes of catching >> somebody driving around in a broken car. >> >> What is the percentage of cars that go around with the MIL turned on and >> the driver ignores it for longer than it takes to get to the shop? And, >> of those, what is the percentage of their contribution to whatever filth >> their car adds to the filth of all of the other cars? >> >> I'd like to see car makers be forced to provide consumers with the same >> kinds of diagnostic information they have available. I disagree with the >> automakers assertion that the diagnostic information is theirs. They sold >> me the car, that makes the diagnostics mine. I own the car and I own the >> data it produces. I should have the same access to that data as they >> have, and I should have it at a reasonable cost. >> >> All of the fault codes that can be gathered from a car should be >> available to anybody and everybody. >> >> > Fault codes are already available to anybody and everybody, even people > who don't know how to interpret them, through OBD I and II. > -- There is diagnostic data that isn't available through OBD, and this is a problem because it forces people to the dealership for services that could be done by whomever people want to pay, or done by the car owner himself. I was just reading in the paper yesterday or the day before that independent service centers do not have access to the same vehicle data that the dealerships have, and the dealerships (automakers) are refusing the notion that the customer has a right to it. The automakers are saying that the data is proprietary, and the owners are saying it ought not be. I side with the owners on this one. If there is vehicle data that is stored which helps diagnose problems, then that data should be stored in a uniform manner and be made available to anybody that wants to see it. It's my car, it's my data. If my data helps the dealership fix my car, then my data should be available to me so I can fix my car. |