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From: clare on 6 Apr 2010 21:58 On Tue, 6 Apr 2010 16:04:37 -0400, "C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)mindspring.com> wrote: > >"Bill Putney" <bptn(a)kinez.net> wrote in message >news:81vfodF92dU1(a)mid.individual.net... >> C. E. White wrote: >> >>> Dusty conditions - how many people actually operate their vehicles >>> in dusty conditions more than very occasionally? The engines of >>> modern cars are sealed much more thoroughly than cars from the >>> middle of the last century. Assuming everything is in good order, >>> the main entry point of dirt into your engine is through the air >>> cleaner. So make sure you have a good air cleaner and stay out of >>> volcanic ash... >> >> And don't use a K&N filter (and - no - I'm not a troll trying to >> start a fight with anybody). :) > >Don't go there. I can't even convince my Son he is an idiot for using >a K&N Air Filter. I keep telling myself, his car, his money. > >>> ...BTW, changing your air filter too often is actually a bad idea. >> >> Other than unnecessary expense of throwing away an unspent filter, >> why? You're going to say you need some dust to clog up the bigger >> holes? Still better than a K&N or equivalent. > >Read these references and decide for yourself - > >http://www.filtercouncil.org/techdata/tsbs/89-3R3.html >http://www.tomorrowstechnician.com/Article/4991/component_connection_the_dirty_little_secrets_of_filters.aspx >http://www.donaldson.com/en/filtermedia/support/datalibrary/052024.pdf > - go to page 10 or so > >My largest farm tractors have air filter restriction gauges (and >back-up air filters). In 30 years I've had a filter restriction light >come on once. Still I like to replace the air filters annually because >I worry about the filters degrading over time. > >I wish I had a good picture of peanut picking...then you'd know what >real dusty conditions are like. I've been in dust so thick you >couldn't see past the front of the tractor. Not fun...but at least >I've always had a tractor with a cab. My Dad picked peanuts with open >deck tractors. > >Ed > Try combining wheat that's been down for a couple weeks and rained on 2 or 3 times - - - - -
From: Bill Putney on 7 Apr 2010 06:27 C. E. White wrote: > "Bill Putney" <bptn(a)kinez.net> wrote in message > news:81vfodF92dU1(a)mid.individual.net... >> C. E. White wrote: >> And don't use a K&N filter (and - no - I'm not a troll trying to >> start a fight with anybody). :) > > Don't go there. I can't even convince my Son he is an idiot for using > a K&N Air Filter. I keep telling myself, his car, his money. > >>> ...BTW, changing your air filter too often is actually a bad idea. >> Other than unnecessary expense of throwing away an unspent filter, >> why? You're going to say you need some dust to clog up the bigger >> holes? Still better than a K&N or equivalent. > > Read these references and decide for yourself - > > http://www.filtercouncil.org/techdata/tsbs/89-3R3.html > http://www.tomorrowstechnician.com/Article/4991/component_connection_the_dirty_little_secrets_of_filters.aspx > http://www.donaldson.com/en/filtermedia/support/datalibrary/052024.pdf > - go to page 10 or so > > My largest farm tractors have air filter restriction gauges (and > back-up air filters). In 30 years I've had a filter restriction light > come on once. Still I like to replace the air filters annually because > I worry about the filters degrading over time. > > I wish I had a good picture of peanut picking...then you'd know what > real dusty conditions are like. I've been in dust so thick you > couldn't see past the front of the tractor. Not fun...but at least > I've always had a tractor with a cab. My Dad picked peanuts with open > deck tractors. If I read your links right, it is a combination of things - mainly a filter gets better in early part of usage from the bigger holes getting blocked by dirt, and every time you mess with your filter, you run the risk of accumulations of dust/dirt falling into the ducting downstream of the filter barrier point. I work in a mining area, and there's a 3/4 mile of dirt/gravel road I travel into and out of my office every week day. Not nearly what agricultural dust is like during your various plowing and harvesting operations, but I do have to change air filter way more often than the typical motorist. I was getting ready to post a link to the Spicer air filter study, but all the links I have appear to be inactive. Anybody have a working link for that? For reference, here are a couple of links that used to work in the past: http://www.duramax-diesel.com/spicer/index.htm http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm These links, in which the guy who did the study tells about interaction with K&N over the study, are still good: http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55604 http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66536 -- Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
From: ACAR on 9 Apr 2010 00:51 On Apr 4, 5:18 pm, cl...(a)snyder.on.ca wrote: > > MY source is a couple mechanics who work at the local Toyota > dealerships. They have not had a SINGLE coked engine failure on > vehicles following the severe service schedule, or using synthetics on > the standard schedule. > > Same with mechanics at the local Mopar dealership. > > And they had a LOT of problem engines using the specified standard oil > on the "normal" change schedule. The problem is obvious - the oil not > being changed often enough for conditions. > This is NOT to say there was not a problem with the engine design that > made the operatring conditions for the oil more onerous than they > needed to be. The OP claims that all passenger cars will run fine using a 10,000 mile oil change interval. Your research indicates that both Toyota and Mopar techs consider that to be bad advice since 10,000 miles is LONG past their normal maintenance schedule. Perhaps the OP should go back and reconsider the test before he goes off half-cocked again. On the other hand, the OP really believes that all accumulated observations are worthless compared with a quantitative result from a single, poorly designed test. Well, all observations other than his own.
From: jim on 22 Apr 2010 08:16 "C. E. White" wrote: > >> BTW, changing your air filter too often is actually > >> a bad > >> idea. > > > > Good post, IMHO, but I'm curious why you say this? <NB - a straight > > question, not challenging you - always happy to learn something new> > > Read these references and decide for yourself - > > http://www.filtercouncil.org/techdata/tsbs/89-3R3.html > http://www.tomorrowstechnician.com/Article/4991/component_connection_the_dirty_little_secrets_of_filters.aspx > http://www.donaldson.com/en/filtermedia/support/datalibrary/052024.pdf > - go to page 10 or so Your information is obsolete. Here is what the Donaldson article says on page 10. ****[quote]***** The use of nanofiber filter media in engine air filters can solve the problems of overservicing and can provide the customer a filter which works well (i.e., is satisfactorily efficient at removing particles greater than 1 micron) when new. The nanofiber layer acts to improve initial efficiency as a surrogate for a dust cake. The low additional pressure drop of the nanofiber layer does little to impair engine power or fuel economy. A nanofiber filter works as a customer intuitively expects: it provides full protection with maximum engine performance when new. ****[end quote]****** That article is an advertisement for Donaldson filters with "nanofiber" technology. That is a advertising buzzword that is intended to convey the idea that Donaldson filters provide the maximum dirt trapping capability when they are brand new. Other filter manufacturers make the same claim. They all say their filters are new and improved and therefore will trap dirt just as good or better than a dirty filter right out of the box. -jim
From: Tony Harding on 21 Apr 2010 01:26
On 04/06/10 18:25, AMuzi wrote: > Joe J wrote: >> >> "C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message >> news:hpg44j$hp$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >>> >>> "Bill Putney" <bptn(a)kinez.net> wrote in message >>> news:81vfodF92dU1(a)mid.individual.net... >>>> C. E. White wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dusty conditions - how many people actually operate their vehicles >>>>> in dusty conditions more than very occasionally? The engines of >>>>> modern cars are sealed much more thoroughly than cars from the >>>>> middle of the last century. Assuming everything is in good order, >>>>> the main entry point of dirt into your engine is through the air >>>>> cleaner. So make sure you have a good air cleaner and stay out of >>>>> volcanic ash... >>>> >>>> And don't use a K&N filter (and - no - I'm not a troll trying to >>>> start a fight with anybody). :) >>> >>> Don't go there. I can't even convince my Son he is an idiot for using >>> a K&N Air Filter. I keep telling myself, his car, his money. >>> >>>>> ...BTW, changing your air filter too often is actually a bad idea. >>>> >>>> Other than unnecessary expense of throwing away an unspent filter, >>>> why? You're going to say you need some dust to clog up the bigger >>>> holes? Still better than a K&N or equivalent. >>> >>> Read these references and decide for yourself - >>> >>> http://www.filtercouncil.org/techdata/tsbs/89-3R3.html >>> http://www.tomorrowstechnician.com/Article/4991/component_connection_the_dirty_little_secrets_of_filters.aspx >>> >>> http://www.donaldson.com/en/filtermedia/support/datalibrary/052024.pdf - >>> go to page 10 or so >>> >>> My largest farm tractors have air filter restriction gauges (and >>> back-up air filters). In 30 years I've had a filter restriction light >>> come on once. Still I like to replace the air filters annually >>> because I worry about the filters degrading over time. >>> >>> I wish I had a good picture of peanut picking...then you'd know what >>> real dusty conditions are like. I've been in dust so thick you >>> couldn't see past the front of the tractor. Not fun...but at least >>> I've always had a tractor with a cab. My Dad picked peanuts with open >>> deck tractors. >>> >>> Ed >>> >> OK, I'll bite, what's a K&N filter? > > Looks like this: > http://www.carburetion.com/weber/weberR2.asp Webers! Wow, talk about a trip down memory lane - my old Porsche 911S had twin 3-barreled Webers. |