Who was it who mentioned Fram oil filters and dropping oil pressure? [Toyota]

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From: hls on 15 Dec 2009 08:53

"Ashton Crusher" <demi(a)moore.net> wrote in message
news:99pdi5h9n3at3csqaamkcie6nvrinufdhf(a)4ax.com...
> On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 08:12:47 -0600, "hls" <hls(a)nospam.nix> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Ashton Crusher" <demi(a)moore.net> wrote in message
>>> You can spend your own money any way you want but there is no factual
>>> basis for your claim that such frequent oil changes are any benefit.
>>> You are still living in the world of 1960 oil.
>>
>>As I have said earlier, the book says 5000, less under severe conditions.
>>The two different dealerships I have bought from recommend 3500. It is
>>a small price to pay,and I am content with it.
>
>
> Hmm, a place that makes money by selling parts and service recommends
> short oil change intervals.... how surprising.

As long as I get the change in under 5000k, I have a paper trail to support
my warranty, and that is important to me. Although, on the Avalon, we have
now had it nearly three years and there has been nothing falling off, no
rattles,
absolutely nothing to complain about. The warranty on this one goes 7/70.

From: C. E. White on 17 Dec 2009 00:26

"hls" <hls(a)nospam.nix> wrote in message
news:v6udnZZReaCr17vWnZ2dnUVZ_oadnZ2d(a)giganews.com...

> I am sure these studies must exist, on filters, oil change intervals,
> effect of particulates of different size distributions in the oil, etc
> etc, nbut I have ever seen them. (And I HAVE looked for them)

Go to www.sae.org and search for papers on the subject.

The following was extracted from 981443 - Extended Oil Drain Intervals -
Conservation of
Resources or Reduction of Engine Life (Part II)

"....The authors jointly presented a paper at the February 1995 SAE Congress
(1). The main conclusion of the experience up to that time was:

"Used oil analysis of test cars in the European Market demonstrated that
engine oils can be already exhausted at 6,000 km (� 3,700 miles) or could
last up to 30,000 km (� 18,650 miles), depending on quality of the oil and
use of the car....

"4. CONCLUSION

"For a considerable time it has been the objective for scientists and
engineers around the world to optimise the use of resources on the one hand
and on the other hand to reduce operational costs for cars by defining the
ideal ODI. So far the best tools for the optimal definition of the ODI [Oil
Drain Interval] are relatively simple engine calculation systems based on
mileage, number of starts and average oil temperature.

"But also the oil quality has a major influence on the ODI. Since there is a
wide variety of lubricants with different performance levels available in
the market, it is necessary to develop a more intelligent system to include
oil quality in the calculation.

"An important task is to detect the correct engine oil performance level.
High performance engine oils are usually blended with extra high refined or
synthetic base stocks at higher cost. But they have a range of benefits,
especially reduced friction properties to improve fuel economy and
emissions, reduced oil consumption and better wear protection properties. If
this is also the case after several thousand miles of use, a bonus has to be
included by calculating
the ODI. On the other hand the ODI has to be shortened if a poor oil quality
is used.

"But the ODI is not only heavily influenced by the quality of the engine
oil, but also by the design and the use of the engine which are major
influencing factors. Therefore ideally we have to develop on-board
monitoring systems to detect the condition of the engine oil during its use.
Sensors able to do so are under development, but not yet available for
production.

"Combining the data stored in the engine management systems with "in situ"
conductivity measurements is a step forward towards optimised ODI's. The
experience and the high number of tests accumulated within the cooperation
of both companies over several years resulted in the new ASSYST service
system. With this system the car owners will benefit from an optimal mileage
calculated up to the next oil change. But there will also be a cost benefit
since the customer is able to select the most appropriate oil quality level
(to benefit from high performance oils) and increase the lifetime of his
car...."

From: hls on 17 Dec 2009 09:56

"C. E. White" <cewhite3remove(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:MeqdncXOn4mYXLTWnZ2dnUVZ_hqdnZ2d(a)earthlink.com...
>
> "hls" <hls(a)nospam.nix> wrote in message
> news:v6udnZZReaCr17vWnZ2dnUVZ_oadnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>
>
>> I am sure these studies must exist, on filters, oil change intervals,
>> effect of particulates of different size distributions in the oil, etc
>> etc, nbut I have ever seen them. (And I HAVE looked for them)
>
> Go to www.sae.org and search for papers on the subject.
>
> The following was extracted from 981443 - Extended Oil Drain Intervals -
> Conservation of
> Resources or Reduction of Engine Life (Part II)
>
> "....The authors jointly presented a paper at the February 1995 SAE
> Congress (1). The main conclusion of the experience up to that time was:
>
> "Used oil analysis of test cars in the European Market demonstrated that
> engine oils can be already exhausted at 6,000 km (� 3,700 miles) or could
> last up to 30,000 km (� 18,650 miles), depending on quality of the oil and
> use of the car....
>
> "4. CONCLUSION
>
> "For a considerable time it has been the objective for scientists and
> engineers around the world to optimise the use of resources on the one
> hand and on the other hand to reduce operational costs for cars by
> defining the ideal ODI. So far the best tools for the optimal definition
> of the ODI [Oil Drain Interval] are relatively simple engine calculation
> systems based on mileage, number of starts and average oil temperature.
>
> "But also the oil quality has a major influence on the ODI. Since there is
> a wide variety of lubricants with different performance levels available
> in the market, it is necessary to develop a more intelligent system to
> include oil quality in the calculation.
>
> "An important task is to detect the correct engine oil performance level.
> High performance engine oils are usually blended with extra high refined
> or synthetic base stocks at higher cost. But they have a range of
> benefits, especially reduced friction properties to improve fuel economy
> and emissions, reduced oil consumption and better wear protection
> properties. If this is also the case after several thousand miles of use,
> a bonus has to be included by calculating
> the ODI. On the other hand the ODI has to be shortened if a poor oil
> quality is used.
>
> "But the ODI is not only heavily influenced by the quality of the engine
> oil, but also by the design and the use of the engine which are major
> influencing factors. Therefore ideally we have to develop on-board
> monitoring systems to detect the condition of the engine oil during its
> use. Sensors able to do so are under development, but not yet available
> for production.
>
> "Combining the data stored in the engine management systems with "in situ"
> conductivity measurements is a step forward towards optimised ODI's. The
> experience and the high number of tests accumulated within the cooperation
> of both companies over several years resulted in the new ASSYST service
> system. With this system the car owners will benefit from an optimal
> mileage calculated up to the next oil change. But there will also be a
> cost benefit since the customer is able to select the most appropriate oil
> quality level (to benefit from high performance oils) and increase the
> lifetime of his car...."

Thanks, C.E.
By the way, I was googling yesterday, looking for a Timken lubricity tester,
and
found a link to a video where this (somewhat elementary) took was being used
to evaluate several motor oil lubricants and additives. It is worth a quick
look.
I will try to find it and post it on here.

From: hls on 17 Dec 2009 10:04

"hls" <hls(a)nospam.nix> wrote in message
news:3_6dnXg8r6MI27fWnZ2dnUVZ_g-dnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>
> "C. E. White" <cewhite3remove(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:MeqdncXOn4mYXLTWnZ2dnUVZ_hqdnZ2d(a)earthlink.com...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iFOTu2Kimg

Here is that link.. Interesting, but not definitive.

From: hls on 17 Dec 2009 10:06

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