Who was it who mentioned Fram oil filters and dropping oil pressure?
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From: Vic Smith on 13 Dec 2009 18:53 On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 16:18:17 -0700, Ashton Crusher <demi(a)moore.net> wrote: > >And for the most part they all say around 6/6000. Some claim you need >it more often for taxi service but Consumer reports proved that is not >needed. > My 1997 Lumina owners manual has 2 schedules for oil change. Short Trip/City - 3000 miles or 3 months, whichever comes first. Long Trip/Highway - 7500 miles or 12 months, whichever comes first. What that means is beyond me. Let's say I change the oil, drive 1500 highway miles to my vacation city, drive 500 miles in that city, come home 1500 miles on the highway, and then do the typical city commuting again. When do I change the oil? Stupid to try to make sense of that. Easier to just change the oil every 3000, or 5000, or 7500. Pick your own number. That CR test on taxis was full of flaws, the obvious one being that taxis often run all day without being shut down. Anyway, nobody knows the real difference of changing at 3000 versus 5000. NOBODY. So do what makes you feel good. --Vic
From: SMS on 13 Dec 2009 19:20 Vic Smith wrote: > On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 16:18:17 -0700, Ashton Crusher <demi(a)moore.net> > wrote: > >> And for the most part they all say around 6/6000. Some claim you need >> it more often for taxi service but Consumer reports proved that is not >> needed. >> > My 1997 Lumina owners manual has 2 schedules for oil change. > Short Trip/City - 3000 miles or 3 months, whichever comes first. > Long Trip/Highway - 7500 miles or 12 months, whichever comes first. > What that means is beyond me. If the vehicle is used solely for short trips, more frequent changes are needed because the moisture that builds up in the oil is never vaporized. You might see some seniors in Florida that just drive from their condo to the supermarket or shopping center in this category, but not a lot of people fall into this category. The places like Jiffy Lube has valiantly tried to claim that nearly every vehicle is in "severe service" because nearly every vehicle is used for short trips on occasion. Scientific American got it right: "According to the automotive website Edmunds.com, the answer depends more on driving patterns than anything else. Those who rarely drive more than 10 miles at a time (which doesn�t get the oil hot enough to boil off moisture condensation) or who start their car frequently when the oil isn�t hot (when most engine wear occurs) should change their oil more often�at least twice a year, even if that�s every 1,000 miles, according to Edmunds. But commuters who drive more than 20 miles a day on mostly flat freeway can go as far as their owner�s manual recommends, if not longer, between changes. As a car ages, more frequent changes might be in order, but that�s for a qualified mechanic to decide on a case-by-case basis. �The necessity of 3,000 mile oil changes is a myth that has been handed down for decades,� writes Austin Davis, proprietor of the website TrustMyMechanic.com. He says that the economics of the oil change industry demand pushing customers to get their oil changed more frequently�purportedly as �cheap insurance� against problems cropping up�whether they need it or not. One of the largest oil change chains, Jiffy Lube, for instance, is owned by Pennzoil-Quaker State, and as such has an incentive to sell as much of the company�s traditional petroleum-based oil as possible." The bottom line is that 3000 mile oil changes are nearly always a complete waste of money. They do not extend the life of the engine one iota. Taking the myth to even greater levels of absurdity, why not change it every 1000 miles or 500 miles. After all it's "cheap insurance" so you should buy as much cheap insurance as you can.
From: dr_jeff on 13 Dec 2009 19:24 SMS wrote: > Vic Smith wrote: >> On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 16:18:17 -0700, Ashton Crusher <demi(a)moore.net> >> wrote: >> >>> And for the most part they all say around 6/6000. Some claim you need >>> it more often for taxi service but Consumer reports proved that is not >>> needed. >> My 1997 Lumina owners manual has 2 schedules for oil change. >> Short Trip/City - 3000 miles or 3 months, whichever comes first. >> Long Trip/Highway - 7500 miles or 12 months, whichever comes first. >> What that means is beyond me. > > If the vehicle is used solely for short trips, more frequent changes are > needed because the moisture that builds up in the oil is never > vaporized. You might see some seniors in Florida that just drive from > their condo to the supermarket or shopping center in this category, but > not a lot of people fall into this category. > > The places like Jiffy Lube has valiantly tried to claim that nearly > every vehicle is in "severe service" because nearly every vehicle is > used for short trips on occasion. Wrong. They tried to make the claim so that they can sell more oil and filters and make more money that way, as well as try peddle other services that are either unneeded or needed far less frequently than Jiffy Lube recommends, like transmission flushes and other ripoffs. > Scientific American got it right: > > "According to the automotive website Edmunds.com, the answer depends > more on driving patterns than anything else. Those who rarely drive more > than 10 miles at a time (which doesn�t get the oil hot enough to boil > off moisture condensation) or who start their car frequently when the > oil isn�t hot (when most engine wear occurs) should change their oil > more often�at least twice a year, even if that�s every 1,000 miles, > according to Edmunds. But commuters who drive more than 20 miles a day > on mostly flat freeway can go as far as their owner�s manual recommends, > if not longer, between changes. As a car ages, more frequent changes > might be in order, but that�s for a qualified mechanic to decide on a > case-by-case basis. > > �The necessity of 3,000 mile oil changes is a myth that has been handed > down for decades,� writes Austin Davis, proprietor of the website > TrustMyMechanic.com. He says that the economics of the oil change > industry demand pushing customers to get their oil changed more > frequently�purportedly as �cheap insurance� against problems cropping > up�whether they need it or not. One of the largest oil change chains, > Jiffy Lube, for instance, is owned by Pennzoil-Quaker State, and as such > has an incentive to sell as much of the company�s traditional > petroleum-based oil as possible." > > > The bottom line is that 3000 mile oil changes are nearly always a > complete waste of money. They do not extend the life of the engine one > iota. Taking the myth to even greater levels of absurdity, why not > change it every 1000 miles or 500 miles. After all it's "cheap > insurance" so you should buy as much cheap insurance as you can.
From: Vic Smith on 13 Dec 2009 19:49 On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 16:20:49 -0800, SMS <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote: >Vic Smith wrote: >> On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 16:18:17 -0700, Ashton Crusher <demi(a)moore.net> >> wrote: >> >>> And for the most part they all say around 6/6000. Some claim you need >>> it more often for taxi service but Consumer reports proved that is not >>> needed. >>> >> My 1997 Lumina owners manual has 2 schedules for oil change. >> Short Trip/City - 3000 miles or 3 months, whichever comes first. >> Long Trip/Highway - 7500 miles or 12 months, whichever comes first. >> What that means is beyond me. > >If the vehicle is used solely for short trips, more frequent changes are >needed because the moisture that builds up in the oil is never >vaporized. You might see some seniors in Florida that just drive from >their condo to the supermarket or shopping center in this category, but >not a lot of people fall into this category. > I know all that, but that's not what the manual says. It says exactly as I stated. >The places like Jiffy Lube has valiantly tried to claim that nearly >every vehicle is in "severe service" because nearly every vehicle is >used for short trips on occasion. > >Scientific American got it right: > What, by quoting some Joe Blow at Edmunds? Hardly "Scientific." >"According to the automotive website Edmunds.com, the answer depends >more on driving patterns than anything else. Those who rarely drive more >than 10 miles at a time (which doesn't get the oil hot enough to boil >off moisture condensation) They don't even have that right. My car gets to operating temp in no more than 3 miles, even when it's -0 F outside. Beside that, many use their car for long commutes, then jump into them at night or on the weekend go a couple blocks to pick up a gallon of milk or something, never getting the engine warm. Repeatedly. >or who start their car frequently when the >oil isn't hot (when most engine wear occurs) should change their oil >more often—at least twice a year, even if that's every 1,000 miles, >according to Edmunds. But commuters who drive more than 20 miles a day >on mostly flat freeway can go as far as their owner's manual recommends, >if not longer, between changes. As a car ages, more frequent changes >might be in order, but that's for a qualified mechanic to decide on a >case-by-case basis. > >“The necessity of 3,000 mile oil changes is a myth that has been handed >down for decades,” writes Austin Davis, proprietor of the website >TrustMyMechanic.com. He says that the economics of the oil change >industry demand pushing customers to get their oil changed more >frequently—purportedly as “cheap insurance” against problems cropping >up—whether they need it or not. One of the largest oil change chains, >Jiffy Lube, for instance, is owned by Pennzoil-Quaker State, and as such >has an incentive to sell as much of the company's traditional >petroleum-based oil as possible." > No surprise that oil companies want to sell more oil. > >The bottom line is that 3000 mile oil changes are nearly always a >complete waste of money. They do not extend the life of the engine one >iota. Taking the myth to even greater levels of absurdity, why not >change it every 1000 miles or 500 miles. After all it's "cheap >insurance" so you should buy as much cheap insurance as you can. You just pick an acceptable duration - to you - according to your judgement of what facts are as you see them. BTW, using the above logic, why change at 7,500 mile? Why not 15,000, or 30,000? After all, you're just forking over money to the oil companies. As I said, NOBODY knows the difference 3000 vs 7500 mile oil changes have on the engine in the long run. NOBODY. Even somebody who gets an oil analysis done every change doesn't know the actual effects of those results. Let common sense be your guide if you have no scientific data to back up your inclinations. My mark is 3000 miles, but I'm not religious about it, and sometimes go to 4000. It's not a big deal. The oil gets recycled. --Vic
From: jim on 13 Dec 2009 19:55
SMS wrote: > > Vic Smith wrote: > > On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 16:18:17 -0700, Ashton Crusher <demi(a)moore.net> > > wrote: > > > >> And for the most part they all say around 6/6000. Some claim you need > >> it more often for taxi service but Consumer reports proved that is not > >> needed. > >> > > My 1997 Lumina owners manual has 2 schedules for oil change. > > Short Trip/City - 3000 miles or 3 months, whichever comes first. > > Long Trip/Highway - 7500 miles or 12 months, whichever comes first. > > What that means is beyond me. > > If the vehicle is used solely for short trips, more frequent changes are > needed because the moisture that builds up in the oil is never > vaporized. You might see some seniors in Florida that just drive from > their condo to the supermarket or shopping center in this category, but > not a lot of people fall into this category. > > The places like Jiffy Lube has valiantly tried to claim that nearly > every vehicle is in "severe service" because nearly every vehicle is > used for short trips on occasion. > > Scientific American got it right: > > "According to the automotive website Edmunds.com, the answer depends > more on driving patterns than anything else. Those who rarely drive more > than 10 miles at a time (which doesn�t get the oil hot enough to boil > off moisture condensation) or who start their car frequently when the > oil isn�t hot (when most engine wear occurs) should change their oil > more often�at least twice a year, even if that�s every 1,000 miles, > according to Edmunds. But commuters who drive more than 20 miles a day > on mostly flat freeway can go as far as their owner�s manual recommends, > if not longer, between changes. As a car ages, more frequent changes > might be in order, but that�s for a qualified mechanic to decide on a > case-by-case basis. > Here is a question for you to ponder. How is the "qualified mechanic" going to determine if the little blue haired lady's car needs more frequent oil changes? |