NUMMI Story on "This American Life"
in [Toyota]
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From: jim beam on 28 Mar 2010 23:12 On 03/28/2010 07:20 PM, Bob Cooper wrote: > In article<jOWdnfKCEJsuYTLWnZ2dnUVZ_gmdnZ2d(a)giganews.com>, > n5hsr(a)sprynet.com says... >> >> "hls"<hls(a)nospam.nix> wrote in message >> news:0uudncQpRJf3bzLWnZ2dnUVZ_rCdnZ2d(a)giganews.com... >>> >>> "C. E. White"<cewhite3remove(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message >>> news:G96dnVfJfLXoWTLWnZ2dnUVZ_sCdnZ2d(a)earthlink.com... >>>> http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/403/nummi >>>> >>>> I listened to this yesterday. Very pro-Toyota and anti-GM. Completely one >>>> sided since the only GM people they interviewed were connected to NUMI. >>>> Most seemed bitter. I think they greatly over simplified the story in >>>> order to praise Toyota. It really made the UAW look bad. Typical NPR >>>> stuff., but still it was interesting. >>>> >>> >>> When I first read about NUMMI, it seemed that Toyota got into this >>> thing as an accomodation to GM. When GM folded, there was no >>> reason to continue, this most expensive manufacturing site in America. >>> >>> I could be wrong. If GM had no alternative, then neither did Toyota. >> >> I had hoped that GM would learn why Toyota was able to sell its Corolla from >> NUMMI (I'm driving one) for $1000 or so more than the Geo Prism that came >> down the same line and was worked on by the same workers. They didn't. >> >> Charles Grozny > > A relative has had a Prism for many years. Good car. > I had hoped that consumers would learn not to pay $1000 more for the > Corolla. They didn't. > Resale is better for the Toyota if sold still young. > But when you get north of 100k miles it starts turning into a net loser > on that score. eh? how do you figure that? year for year, any year, what is the resale value of the prism vs the corolla? -- nomina rutrum rutrum
From: jim beam on 28 Mar 2010 23:17 On 03/28/2010 08:10 PM, jim beam wrote: > On 03/28/2010 06:51 PM, dr_jeff wrote: >> jim beam wrote: >>> On 03/28/2010 02:04 PM, C. E. White wrote: >>>> http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/403/nummi >>>> >>>> I listened to this yesterday. Very pro-Toyota and anti-GM. Completely >>>> one sided since the only GM people they interviewed were connected to >>>> NUMI. Most seemed bitter. I think they greatly over simplified the >>>> story >>>> in order to praise Toyota. It really made the UAW look bad. Typical NPR >>>> stuff., but still it was interesting. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> did they mention the fact that g.m. exports its jobs to, and imports >>> componentry from china? >> >> What components and how much does it import from China? Does GM have >> Chinese partners who, together, make cars for the Chinese market, >> thereby moving GM into a new market? > > gm has considerable manufacturing capacity in china. and it makes and > sells vehicles there for that market. but it also uses that capacity to > make things like seats, drive shafts, brakes, wiring looms, computers > and instrumentation for our market. taxpayers supporting those > operations is utterly ridiculous when millions of americans are out of > work. > > >> >>> or did they simply point out that toyota creates american jobs and >>> buys their componentry from american manufacturers? >> >> Toyota does import many of its parts (more than the Michigan 3). > > sadly, it doesn't. camry for instance is 80% locally sourced. that's > better than typical gm. > > >> >>> i doubt they said that japan is an ally and that china is not. or that >>> american taxpayer support of companies that export their business and >>> jobs to a country that completely disrespects human rights, democracy >>> or intellectual property is nothing short of fraud. >> >> The alternative is to let poor people in China stay poor. > > chinese peasants staying poor, as they have for millennia under assorted > despots and tyrants, is a damned sight more tolerable to me than > watching americans /become/ poor because their jobs have been shipped to > a country that also steals their intellectual property and money. and who threatens our allies in the region. > > >> >> JEff >> >>> you're perpetrating a fraud ed. you should hang your head in shame. >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfer >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraudience >>> >>> > > -- nomina rutrum rutrum
From: jim beam on 28 Mar 2010 23:40 On 03/28/2010 05:20 PM, hls wrote: > > "C. E. White" <cewhite3remove(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message > news:G96dnVfJfLXoWTLWnZ2dnUVZ_sCdnZ2d(a)earthlink.com... >> http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/403/nummi >> >> I listened to this yesterday. Very pro-Toyota and anti-GM. Completely >> one sided since the only GM people they interviewed were connected to >> NUMI. Most seemed bitter. I think they greatly over simplified the >> story in order to praise Toyota. It really made the UAW look bad. >> Typical NPR stuff., but still it was interesting. >> > > When I first read about NUMMI, it seemed that Toyota got into this > thing as an accomodation to GM. When GM folded, there was no > reason to continue, this most expensive manufacturing site in America. gm's manufacturing facilities in germany are considerably more expensive than any they operate here. more expensive labor [MUCH more powerful unions], components, logistics, etc. yet gm are able to make a profit on those operations. odd how they say they're unable to do so here. > > I could be wrong. If GM had no alternative, then neither did Toyota. -- nomina rutrum rutrum
From: primemover on 29 Mar 2010 05:09 On Mar 28, 1:04 pm, "C. E. White" <cewhite3rem...(a)mindspring.com> wrote: > http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/403/nummi > > I listened to this yesterday. Very pro-Toyota and anti-GM. Completely one > sided since the only GM people they interviewed were connected to NUMI. Most > seemed bitter. I think they greatly over simplified the story in order to > praise Toyota. It really made the UAW look bad. Typical NPR stuff., but > still it was interesting. Those of you who buy into this coverage being "pro-Toyota" and "anti- GM" are delusional and have you head in the sand. Listen to it again without you instinctual bias flaming and you will realize the story stands on its own and is a fine and objective piece of journalism. Your attitude undermines the US economy as we lose the new jobs battle to China and the other economies for true green technology developing now.
From: dr_jeff on 29 Mar 2010 06:04
jim beam wrote: > On 03/28/2010 06:51 PM, dr_jeff wrote: >> jim beam wrote: >>> On 03/28/2010 02:04 PM, C. E. White wrote: >>>> http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/403/nummi >>>> >>>> I listened to this yesterday. Very pro-Toyota and anti-GM. Completely >>>> one sided since the only GM people they interviewed were connected to >>>> NUMI. Most seemed bitter. I think they greatly over simplified the >>>> story >>>> in order to praise Toyota. It really made the UAW look bad. Typical NPR >>>> stuff., but still it was interesting. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> did they mention the fact that g.m. exports its jobs to, and imports >>> componentry from china? >> >> What components and how much does it import from China? Does GM have >> Chinese partners who, together, make cars for the Chinese market, >> thereby moving GM into a new market? > > gm has considerable manufacturing capacity in china. and it makes and > sells vehicles there for that market. but it also uses that capacity > to make things like seats, drive shafts, brakes, wiring looms, computers > and instrumentation for our market. taxpayers supporting those > operations is utterly ridiculous when millions of americans are out of > work. What percentage of these components sold in the US are made in China? The Michigan 3 sell cars with a higher percentage of US-made components than the import brands, although until the end of the Bush administration, they came close. >>> or did they simply point out that toyota creates american jobs and >>> buys their componentry from american manufacturers? >> >> Toyota does import many of its parts (more than the Michigan 3). > > sadly, it doesn't. camry for instance is 80% locally sourced. that's > better than typical gm. Typical GM is around 75-80%. Typical Toyota and Honda around 55-60%. Particular models, like the Sienna, are around 85% US-made. The numbers are from before the end of the Bush era. After that, a lot has changed like the closing of the NUMMI plant. Toyota may import a different percentage of its cars than before because of different models selling better and other economic reasons. >>> i doubt they said that japan is an ally and that china is not. or that >>> american taxpayer support of companies that export their business and >>> jobs to a country that completely disrespects human rights, democracy >>> or intellectual property is nothing short of fraud. >> >> The alternative is to let poor people in China stay poor. > > chinese peasants staying poor, as they have for millennia under assorted > despots and tyrants, is a damned sight more tolerable to me than > watching americans /become/ poor because their jobs have been shipped to > a country that also steals their intellectual property and money. I disagree. You could have made the same argument for Korea 40 years ago. Yet, S. Korea, where we important a lot from has done quite well. N. Korea, from whom we important next to nothing is still dirt poor. Jeff >> JEff >> >>> you're perpetrating a fraud ed. you should hang your head in shame. >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfer >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraudience >>> >>> > > |