NHTSA Report from 2008 on Lexus ES350 UA
in [Toyota]
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From: Obveeus on 16 Mar 2010 08:39 "C. E. White" <cewhite3remove(a)mindspring.com> wrote: > I read that Toyota was going to implement an alternate strategy that would > shut down the engine if the button was pushed multiple times over a short > period (this would be in addition to the original "push it for 3 sec" shut > down mode). The feeling is that this is what some one might do in a panic > situation - partucalurly some one not familar with the car (or someone wo > didn't bother to read the manual). That sort of additional 'off method' would be a good idea. >> They probably didn't know what ESC meant either. > > They don't need to know what it means, it is fully automatic. > >>>. Many owners complained that the neutral gear position in the gated >>>shift pattern was >>>not immediately obvious, leading to unsuccessful attempts to disengage >>>the engine >>>from the drive wheels. >> >> More poor design. > > I griped about the Toyota shifter gate design philosophy a couple of years > back when my SO first got her RAV4. It is ridiculously over complicated. > I've gotten used to it, but it is still a bad design. I can see where a > driver unfamiliar with the design could have problems during a stressful > event. This certainly isn't a problem for the Prius, though, as its shirfter is as simplistic as could be designed. Basically: Drive-Neutral-Reverse. Still, even with the stairstep shifter in the referenced Lexus, wouldn't any shift at all result in slowing the car down? Shift one way from Drive and you get lower gearing which would slow the car down and shift the other way from Drive and you get Neutral. The car won't let a person shift into Reverse while moving, so the shifter, even with the stairstep complexity, still seems foolproof in that any shift away from Drive would slow/stop the car.
From: JoeSpareBedroom on 16 Mar 2010 08:46 "Obveeus" <Obveeus(a)aol.com> wrote in message news:hnnu6j$s0d$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... > > "C. E. White" <cewhite3remove(a)mindspring.com> wrote: > >> I read that Toyota was going to implement an alternate strategy that >> would shut down the engine if the button was pushed multiple times over a >> short period (this would be in addition to the original "push it for 3 >> sec" shut down mode). The feeling is that this is what some one might do >> in a panic situation - partucalurly some one not familar with the car (or >> someone wo didn't bother to read the manual). > > That sort of additional 'off method' would be a good idea. Don't Prius owners have to push the magic "off" button when they arrive at their destination, or do those cars just sorta sense when the trip's over and shut themselves off?
From: Obveeus on 16 Mar 2010 09:01 "JoeSpareBedroom" <newstrash(a)frontiernet.net> wrote in message news:F4Lnn.75999$wr5.45038(a)newsfe22.iad... > "Obveeus" <Obveeus(a)aol.com> wrote in message > news:hnnu6j$s0d$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >> >> "C. E. White" <cewhite3remove(a)mindspring.com> wrote: >> >>> I read that Toyota was going to implement an alternate strategy that >>> would shut down the engine if the button was pushed multiple times over >>> a short period (this would be in addition to the original "push it for 3 >>> sec" shut down mode). The feeling is that this is what some one might do >>> in a panic situation - partucalurly some one not familar with the car >>> (or someone wo didn't bother to read the manual). >> >> That sort of additional 'off method' would be a good idea. > > Don't Prius owners have to push the magic "off" button when they arrive at > their destination, or do those cars just sorta sense when the trip's over > and shut themselves off? Presumably, that event occurs with the car in stopped (maybe even after they have pressed the park button), so they don't need to hold the 'off' power button down for 3 seconds.
From: JoeSpareBedroom on 16 Mar 2010 09:12 "Obveeus" <Obveeus(a)aol.com> wrote in message news:hnnvfe$2qm$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... > > "JoeSpareBedroom" <newstrash(a)frontiernet.net> wrote in message > news:F4Lnn.75999$wr5.45038(a)newsfe22.iad... >> "Obveeus" <Obveeus(a)aol.com> wrote in message >> news:hnnu6j$s0d$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >>> >>> "C. E. White" <cewhite3remove(a)mindspring.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I read that Toyota was going to implement an alternate strategy that >>>> would shut down the engine if the button was pushed multiple times over >>>> a short period (this would be in addition to the original "push it for >>>> 3 sec" shut down mode). The feeling is that this is what some one might >>>> do in a panic situation - partucalurly some one not familar with the >>>> car (or someone wo didn't bother to read the manual). >>> >>> That sort of additional 'off method' would be a good idea. >> >> Don't Prius owners have to push the magic "off" button when they arrive >> at their destination, or do those cars just sorta sense when the trip's >> over and shut themselves off? > > Presumably, that event occurs with the car in stopped (maybe even after > they have pressed the park button), so they don't need to hold the 'off' > power button down for 3 seconds. Presumably. The life blood of newsgroups.
From: Obveeus on 16 Mar 2010 09:17
"JoeSpareBedroom" <newstrash(a)frontiernet.net> wrote in message news:ZsLnn.76005$wr5.67692(a)newsfe22.iad... > "Obveeus" <Obveeus(a)aol.com> wrote in message > news:hnnvfe$2qm$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >> >> "JoeSpareBedroom" <newstrash(a)frontiernet.net> wrote in message >> news:F4Lnn.75999$wr5.45038(a)newsfe22.iad... >>> "Obveeus" <Obveeus(a)aol.com> wrote in message >>> news:hnnu6j$s0d$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >>>> >>>> "C. E. White" <cewhite3remove(a)mindspring.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I read that Toyota was going to implement an alternate strategy that >>>>> would shut down the engine if the button was pushed multiple times >>>>> over a short period (this would be in addition to the original "push >>>>> it for 3 sec" shut down mode). The feeling is that this is what some >>>>> one might do in a panic situation - partucalurly some one not familar >>>>> with the car (or someone wo didn't bother to read the manual). >>>> >>>> That sort of additional 'off method' would be a good idea. >>> >>> Don't Prius owners have to push the magic "off" button when they arrive >>> at their destination, or do those cars just sorta sense when the trip's >>> over and shut themselves off? >> >> Presumably, that event occurs with the car in stopped (maybe even after >> they have pressed the park button), so they don't need to hold the 'off' >> power button down for 3 seconds. > > Presumably. The life blood of newsgroups. I could have used the word 'obviously' or 'logically' as well since both would fit for anyone honestly trying to understand the situation. In any case, it makes infinitely more sense than 'presuming' that people know how to use a feature that they have never had to use before (emergency shutoff method of a runaway vehicle) and 'presuming' that they will remember to do it while in a panic situation. |