Prev: Prius and Murphy's Law
Next: Toyota says no evidence 'runaway' Prius happened
From: Ed White on 15 Mar 2010 17:13
I have been hard on NHTSA adminstartion ecasue I feel they did not pay
enough attention to the Toyota UA complaints. However, I did come
across what I think was a very good report on an investigation of UA
concerns as they relate to the Lexus ES350. A copy is at
http://www.autosafety.org/sites/default/files/nhtsa%20final%20report%20VRTC%20EA07-010%20Lexus%20Floor%20Mat.pdf
..

Here is the sumary:

"4.0 Summary
• Mechanical interferences at the accelerator pedal revealed that the
accelerator pedal
assembly was easily entrapped in the groove of the rubber all-weather
floor mat if the
rubber mat was not properly secured with at least one of the two
retaining hooks.

• A survey was sent to 1986 registered owners of a 2007 Lexus ES-350
requesting
information regarding episodes of unintended acceleration. Of the 600
people that
responded, 59 stated that they experienced unintended acceleration and
35
complained of pedal interference with the Lexus rubber all-weather
floor mats.

• With the engine throttle plate open, the vacuum power assist of the
braking system
cannot be replenished and the effectiveness of the brakes is reduced
significantly.
o Brake pedal force in excess of 150 pounds was required to stop the
vehicle,
compared to 30 pounds required when the vehicle is operating normally.
o ESC activation may restore vacuum to the brake booster, providing a
significant
increase in braking capability, but only until ESC activity ceases.

• The owner survey indicated the 3 second delay in the operation of
the ignition button
is not widely known by owners and because of this, drivers found
themselves unable
to turn off the engine when the vehicle was in motion.

• Many owners complained that the neutral gear position in the gated
shift pattern was
not immediately obvious, leading to unsuccessful attempts to disengage
the engine
from the drive wheels.

Ed
From: Skeptic on 15 Mar 2010 21:19
Ed White <ce.white3(a)gmail.com> wrote:

>Here is the sumary:

>"4.0 Summary

<snip>

>o Brake pedal force in excess of 150 pounds was required to stop the
>vehicle,
>compared to 30 pounds required when the vehicle is operating normally.
>o ESC activation may restore vacuum to the brake booster, providing a
>significant
>increase in braking capability, but only until ESC activity ceases.

What is ESC? "Escape" perhaps?

As an aside I was looking up the web for the nearest Walgreens to send
some photos to and the closest one was "SEC of [Name of road], [town],
[Zip]. What's "SEC"? The only thing I know with those initials is the
Securities and Exchange Commission and I doubt they have offices in
the local Walgreens, nor even a branch at the address. I asked the
manager at the store. He didn't know either but said he'd ask the
district supervisor. Finally by checking up on all the Walgreens in
the area I worked out what it was: South East Corner. For the dirtbag
programmer/analyst/web designer with the bull neck, coke bottle
glasses, and the pizza stains on his shirt, it's probably obvious,
just not to all normal people. (If you get the idea I don't like
computer people you'd be right. I used to be in the business.)

>� The owner survey indicated the 3 second delay in the operation of
>the ignition button
>is not widely known by owners and because of this, drivers found
>themselves unable
>to turn off the engine when the vehicle was in motion.

They probably didn't know what ESC meant either.

>� Many owners complained that the neutral gear position in the gated
>shift pattern was
>not immediately obvious, leading to unsuccessful attempts to disengage
>the engine
>from the drive wheels.

More poor design.

From: C. E. White on 15 Mar 2010 22:28

<Skeptic(a)MonopolyISP.edu> wrote in message
news:pamtp5p4sga095f3tqvpif36ht42mjnq52(a)4ax.com...
> Ed White <ce.white3(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Here is the sumary:
>
>>"4.0 Summary
>
> <snip>
>
>>o Brake pedal force in excess of 150 pounds was required to stop the
>>vehicle,
>>compared to 30 pounds required when the vehicle is operating normally.
>>o ESC activation may restore vacuum to the brake booster, providing a
>>significant
>>increase in braking capability, but only until ESC activity ceases.
>
> What is ESC? "Escape" perhaps?

Electronic Stability Control. NHTSA has mandated that all light vehicles
will have ESC. The ESC implementation in the ES350 modulates the throttle to
help improve vehicle stability during extreme maneuvers (it also can
selectively apply brakes using the ABS system). The point of the statement
was that during a runaway, an extreme maneuver would engage the ESC
functions. This would module the throttle and therefore restore engine
vacuum which would restore full brake booster power, at least temporarily.
.....

>>. The owner survey indicated the 3 second delay in the operation of
>>the ignition button
>>is not widely known by owners and because of this, drivers found
>>themselves unable
>>to turn off the engine when the vehicle was in motion.

I read that Toyota was going to implement an alternate strategy that would
shut down the engine if the button was pushed multiple times over a short
period (this would be in addition to the original "push it for 3 sec" shut
down mode). The feeling is that this is what some one might do in a panic
situation - partucalurly some one not familar with the car (or someone wo
didn't bother to read the manual).

> They probably didn't know what ESC meant either.

They don't need to know what it means, it is fully automatic.

>>. Many owners complained that the neutral gear position in the gated
>>shift pattern was
>>not immediately obvious, leading to unsuccessful attempts to disengage
>>the engine
>>from the drive wheels.
>
> More poor design.

I griped about the Toyota shifter gate design philosophy a couple of years
back when my SO first got her RAV4. It is ridiculously over complicated.
I've gotten used to it, but it is still a bad design. I can see where a
driver unfamiliar with the design could have problems during a stressful
event.

Ed


From: JoeSpareBedroom on 15 Mar 2010 22:37
<Skeptic(a)MonopolyISP.edu> wrote in message
news:pamtp5p4sga095f3tqvpif36ht42mjnq52(a)4ax.com...
> Ed White <ce.white3(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Here is the sumary:
>
>>"4.0 Summary
>
> <snip>
>
>>o Brake pedal force in excess of 150 pounds was required to stop the
>>vehicle,
>>compared to 30 pounds required when the vehicle is operating normally.
>>o ESC activation may restore vacuum to the brake booster, providing a
>>significant
>>increase in braking capability, but only until ESC activity ceases.
>
> What is ESC? "Escape" perhaps?
>
> As an aside I was looking up the web for the nearest Walgreens to send
> some photos to and the closest one was "SEC of [Name of road], [town],
> [Zip]. What's "SEC"? The only thing I know with those initials is the
> Securities and Exchange Commission and I doubt they have offices in
> the local Walgreens, nor even a branch at the address. I asked the
> manager at the store. He didn't know either but said he'd ask the
> district supervisor. Finally by checking up on all the Walgreens in
> the area I worked out what it was: South East Corner. For the dirtbag
> programmer/analyst/web designer with the bull neck, coke bottle
> glasses, and the pizza stains on his shirt, it's probably obvious,
> just not to all normal people. (If you get the idea I don't like
> computer people you'd be right. I used to be in the business.)


This is why the user interface should ALWAYS be reviewed by users, and if
the programmer objects, he/she should be muzzled and locked in a closet.


From: jim beam on 16 Mar 2010 00:10
On 03/15/2010 02:13 PM, Ed White wrote:
> I have been hard on NHTSA adminstartion ecasue I feel they did not pay
> enough attention to the Toyota UA complaints. However, I did come
> across what I think was a very good report on an investigation of UA
> concerns as they relate to the Lexus ES350. A copy is at
> http://www.autosafety.org/sites/default/files/nhtsa%20final%20report%20VRTC%20EA07-010%20Lexus%20Floor%20Mat.pdf
> .
>
> Here is the sumary:
>
> "4.0 Summary
> � Mechanical interferences at the accelerator pedal revealed that the
> accelerator pedal
> assembly was easily entrapped in the groove of the rubber all-weather
> floor mat if the
> rubber mat was not properly secured with at least one of the two
> retaining hooks.
>
> � A survey was sent to 1986 registered owners of a 2007 Lexus ES-350
> requesting
> information regarding episodes of unintended acceleration. Of the 600
> people that
> responded, 59 stated that they experienced unintended acceleration and
> 35
> complained of pedal interference with the Lexus rubber all-weather
> floor mats.
>
> � With the engine throttle plate open, the vacuum power assist of the
> braking system
> cannot be replenished and the effectiveness of the brakes is reduced
> significantly.
> o Brake pedal force in excess of 150 pounds was required to stop the
> vehicle,
> compared to 30 pounds required when the vehicle is operating normally.
> o ESC activation may restore vacuum to the brake booster, providing a
> significant
> increase in braking capability, but only until ESC activity ceases.
>
> � The owner survey indicated the 3 second delay in the operation of
> the ignition button
> is not widely known by owners and because of this, drivers found
> themselves unable
> to turn off the engine when the vehicle was in motion.
>
> � Many owners complained that the neutral gear position in the gated
> shift pattern was
> not immediately obvious, leading to unsuccessful attempts to disengage
> the engine
> from the drive wheels.
>
> Ed

observe: the official line of g.m. [as voiced by ed the astroturfer
masquerading as a "concerned citizen"] has had to be moderated due to
"unintended consequences".

previously being too freakin' retarded to realize that they were
shooting themselves in the foot with their anti-toyota campaign, and the
massive nhtsa clampdown that would have resulted affecting g.m.'s own
dismal creations, g.m. are having to back away from outright attack to
"moderated concern".

like we really couldn't see this coming ed - we really couldn't!


--
nomina rutrum rutrum
 |  Next  |  Last
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6
Prev: Prius and Murphy's Law
Next: Toyota says no evidence 'runaway' Prius happened