BMW's going hybrid.
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From: Was Istoben on 1 Sep 2009 09:24 "Sylvia Else" <sylvia(a)not.at.this.address> wrote in message news:0055b5c3$0$9529$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com... > Trevor Wilson wrote: >> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia(a)not.at.this.address> wrote in message >> news:000de3fd$0$5739$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com... >>> Trevor Wilson wrote: >>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia(a)not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>> news:0055a50e$0$9562$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com... >>>>> Lu R wrote: >>>>>> http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?articleid=65192&s_rid=smh:rainbowstrip:content1:31-08:bmw >>>>> Well, if you're bying a BMW, you're probably not that worried about >>>>> the fact that the extra cost of the hybrid is never paid off by fuel >>>>> savings. If you're willing to pay $10,000 or $20,000 to feel green, >>>>> then go for it. >>>> **Really? How much will petrol cost next month? How about next year? >>>> How about in 5 years? 10? The problem with making silly predictions, is >>>> that you don't know all the factors. I can promise you thing: Petrol >>>> prices are in an upward trend. There is no evidence to suggest that the >>>> trend will reverse anytime soon. >>> Petrol prices would tend to be capped by the price of biodiesel, because >>> although petrol vehicles cannot run on biodiesel, as soon as it becomes >>> clear that the latter fuel will become cheaper than petrol, people will >>> be buying new vehicles that run on it in preference to petrol. >>> >>> Petrol prices might rise in the short term, but the effect will be self >>> correcting. >> >> **Nope. It doesn't work like that on this planet. We have an >> ever-increasing market for a product whose supply is dwindling. >> Therefore, prices MUST rise. The only thing to prevent this price rise is >> an alternative fuel source. There is no practical alternative which can >> be put into place within 10 years. Bio-Diesel is bullshit. Well, unless >> we all decide that we don't need food anyway. Bio-Diesel has it's place, >> but it is not for most transport. > > Biodiesel produced from algae doesn't displace food production. > > Sylvia. Sylvia. Biodiesel cannot be produced from algae at any meaningful scale.
From: Sylvia Else on 1 Sep 2009 09:31 Was Istoben wrote: > > "Sylvia Else" <sylvia(a)not.at.this.address> wrote in message > news:0055b5c3$0$9529$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com... >> Trevor Wilson wrote: >>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia(a)not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>> news:000de3fd$0$5739$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com... >>>> Trevor Wilson wrote: >>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia(a)not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>>> news:0055a50e$0$9562$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com... >>>>>> Lu R wrote: >>>>>>> http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?articleid=65192&s_rid=smh:rainbowstrip:content1:31-08:bmw >>>>>>> >>>>>> Well, if you're bying a BMW, you're probably not that worried >>>>>> about the fact that the extra cost of the hybrid is never paid off >>>>>> by fuel savings. If you're willing to pay $10,000 or $20,000 to >>>>>> feel green, then go for it. >>>>> **Really? How much will petrol cost next month? How about next >>>>> year? How about in 5 years? 10? The problem with making silly >>>>> predictions, is that you don't know all the factors. I can promise >>>>> you thing: Petrol prices are in an upward trend. There is no >>>>> evidence to suggest that the trend will reverse anytime soon. >>>> Petrol prices would tend to be capped by the price of biodiesel, >>>> because although petrol vehicles cannot run on biodiesel, as soon as >>>> it becomes clear that the latter fuel will become cheaper than >>>> petrol, people will be buying new vehicles that run on it in >>>> preference to petrol. >>>> >>>> Petrol prices might rise in the short term, but the effect will be >>>> self correcting. >>> >>> **Nope. It doesn't work like that on this planet. We have an >>> ever-increasing market for a product whose supply is dwindling. >>> Therefore, prices MUST rise. The only thing to prevent this price >>> rise is an alternative fuel source. There is no practical alternative >>> which can be put into place within 10 years. Bio-Diesel is bullshit. >>> Well, unless we all decide that we don't need food anyway. Bio-Diesel >>> has it's place, but it is not for most transport. >> >> Biodiesel produced from algae doesn't displace food production. >> >> Sylvia. > > Sylvia. Biodiesel cannot be produced from algae at any meaningful scale. > Why not? Sylvia.
From: Was Istoben on 1 Sep 2009 11:38 "Sylvia Else" <sylvia(a)not.at.this.address> wrote in message news:0018f5bd$0$19796$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com... > Was Istoben wrote: >> >> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia(a)not.at.this.address> wrote in message >> news:0055b5c3$0$9529$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com... >>> Trevor Wilson wrote: >>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia(a)not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>> news:000de3fd$0$5739$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com... >>>>> Trevor Wilson wrote: >>>>>> "Sylvia Else" <sylvia(a)not.at.this.address> wrote in message >>>>>> news:0055a50e$0$9562$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com... >>>>>>> Lu R wrote: >>>>>>>> http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?articleid=65192&s_rid=smh:rainbowstrip:content1:31-08:bmw >>>>>>> Well, if you're bying a BMW, you're probably not that worried about >>>>>>> the fact that the extra cost of the hybrid is never paid off by fuel >>>>>>> savings. If you're willing to pay $10,000 or $20,000 to feel green, >>>>>>> then go for it. >>>>>> **Really? How much will petrol cost next month? How about next year? >>>>>> How about in 5 years? 10? The problem with making silly predictions, >>>>>> is that you don't know all the factors. I can promise you thing: >>>>>> Petrol prices are in an upward trend. There is no evidence to suggest >>>>>> that the trend will reverse anytime soon. >>>>> Petrol prices would tend to be capped by the price of biodiesel, >>>>> because although petrol vehicles cannot run on biodiesel, as soon as >>>>> it becomes clear that the latter fuel will become cheaper than petrol, >>>>> people will be buying new vehicles that run on it in preference to >>>>> petrol. >>>>> >>>>> Petrol prices might rise in the short term, but the effect will be >>>>> self correcting. >>>> >>>> **Nope. It doesn't work like that on this planet. We have an >>>> ever-increasing market for a product whose supply is dwindling. >>>> Therefore, prices MUST rise. The only thing to prevent this price rise >>>> is an alternative fuel source. There is no practical alternative which >>>> can be put into place within 10 years. Bio-Diesel is bullshit. Well, >>>> unless we all decide that we don't need food anyway. Bio-Diesel has >>>> it's place, but it is not for most transport. >>> >>> Biodiesel produced from algae doesn't displace food production. >>> >>> Sylvia. >> >> Sylvia. Biodiesel cannot be produced from algae at any meaningful scale. >> > > Why not? > > Sylvia. We burn diesel faster than we can grow algae.
From: Roger/DAVO on 1 Sep 2009 17:30 "Trevor Wilson" <trevor(a)SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message news:7g44u4F2m5uglU1(a)mid.individual.net... > > "Noddy" <me(a)home.com> wrote in message > news:4a9cb5d6$0$93378$c30e37c6(a)exi-reader.telstra.net... >> >> "Trevor Wilson" <trevor(a)SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message >> news:7g3i26F2n3kufU1(a)mid.individual.net... >> >>> **Really? How much will petrol cost next month? How about next year? How >>> about in 5 years? 10? The problem with making silly predictions, is that >>> you don't know all the factors. I can promise you thing: Petrol prices >>> are in an upward trend. There is no evidence to suggest that the trend >>> will reverse anytime soon. >> >> The history of petrol pricing is the history of rises *and* falls, > > **Nope. Since the early part of last century, the trend has been clearly > up. Like real estate and shares, there have been short term falls, but the > overall trend is abundantly clear. The recent financial crisis > precipitated a substantial fall. It is now continuing it's up trend, > established decades ago. > > and it >> has done so significantly very recently. Petrol may be 2 bucks per litre >> in 5 years time, and it may be 2 cents more expensive than it is now. > > **I sure hope you don't invest in shares the same way. Petrol *may* be 2 > Bucks a Litre in 5 years. More likely, it will be significantly higher. > Demand from China and India is increasing rapidly. This will cause prices > to rise. Supply and demand and all that. > > No one >> can say with any degree of certainty, but one thing that is remarkably >> clear is that hybrid cars make absolutely no economic sense whatsoever. > > **Perhaps not now. Perhaps not ever. I would not put money on it though. > There's a reason why Diesel/electric locomotives are popular. Think of it > as a big hybrid, capitalising on the energy density of oil, combined with > the huge torque available from electric motors. The car manufacturers will > continue to muck about with hybrids and other alternatives, because that > is what many buyers want. Governments are mandating zero emission > technologies in various places, so there will be a drive to produce > alterntive powered vehicles. Hybrids may or may not be part of the mix. > Well said Trevor. Too many in here follow that fuckwits "head in the sand" mentality. Whilst I no longer have the Civic Hybrid, I have to agree current technology being used on Hybrids, leave a lot to be desired. However, having said that, it is the way of the future with many many refinements and I can see the day when small diesel electrics as you described with locomotives, will be the norm for our own vehicular transport. At present, let the zombie and it's followers continue to bag something they know very little of, whilst those of us with a functional mind encourage alternative motoring even if it isn't costing us. Roger/Davo
From: Roger/DAVO on 1 Sep 2009 17:34
"Michelle Steiner" <michelle(a)michelle.org> wrote in message news:michelle-426C26.05264801092009(a)news.eternal-september.org... > In article <4a9cb5d6$0$93378$c30e37c6(a)exi-reader.telstra.net>, > "Noddy" <me(a)home.com> wrote: > >> The history of petrol pricing is the history of rises *and* falls, and >> it has done so significantly very recently. > > The trend is up; that is clear to anyone who can look at the overall > history. > >> but one thing that is remarkably clear is that hybrid cars make >> absolutely no economic sense whatsoever. > > None are so blind as those who refuse to see. > > -- > Member National Rifle Association > Member American Civil Liberties Union > Member Human Rights Campaign Also well said Michelle. Unfortunately this Noddy clown has a band of intimidated followers who could be likened to "the blind leading the blind". Now you too will sample the wrath of a complete looney. Roger/Davo |