Wingnuts fail again.
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From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 29 Jul 2010 19:07 On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:39:04 -0700, Aratzio wrote: > How do you think Sheriff Dupnik of Pima County has deported so many > illegal aliens. You know the guy that is Sheriff of the country right > on the border. The one that has clearly stated that he has no problem > deporting illegal aliens without the burden of SB1070. You know the > one that would have required him to check the status of every person > and taken his limited resources away from actual enforcement. > > So, dumbass, do you imagine in your ignorant world that the police > have no ability to detain illegal immigrants? Why are you arguing with me about this? It's pandora who was cheering the decision. Go back, reread the post, and this time try to actually think before responding. Wow. You're being obtuse again. Or is that a permanent condition?
From: Aratzio on 29 Jul 2010 19:09 On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:57:03 -0700, in the land of alt.aratzio, miguel <miguel(a)insurgent.org> got double secret probation for writing: >On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 22:25:54 +0000 (UTC), Meat Plow ><mhywatt(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > >>On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 17:15:24 -0500, pandora wrote: >> >>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 16:01:43 -0400, Hachiroku ???? wrote: >>> >>>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:36:28 -0500, pandora wrote: >>>> >>>>>> <YAWN> Here we go with the straw man of "infringing on the rights of >>>>>> US citizens." The law wasn't written about US citizens or Legal >>>>>> Aliens. Why did you have a Green Card? You have to produce it if >>>>>> asked for it. There is nothing illegal or unconstitutional about >>>>>> that. >>>>> >>>>> I'm not a citizen. And yes, the law, as written, would do exactly >>>>> that. >>>> >>>> How so? If you have a Green Card, you have to produce it to any LEA >>>> asking to see it. You know that. You could just be walking down the >>>> street, and if a cop comes up to you and asks you for ID, are you going >>>> to refuse? >>> >>> Of course not. But then, I'm not a US citizen and I'm *required* to >>> carry my Green Card on me at all times. US citizens are not required to >>> do that. As well, it was an agreement that I made in order to be >>> allowed to live and work here. No such agreement is given by those born >>> here. >>> >>> We've been through this before and all I can conclude is that you just >>> don't wish to admit that the Arizona law impinged on the rights of legal >>> US citizens and residents. >> >>Not being too well informed on that law but trusting your knowledge on >>it, what rights of US citizens are being impinged upon? > >Among other things, it required the police to arrest and detain any >immigrant, legal or illegal, until immigration status was determined. This is another in a long line of "populist/issue" laws put forth by the politicians. They know full well that the law will fail constitutional muster and when the law is struck by the judiciary they then use that as evidence of "activist" judges, flaunting the will of the people or their efforts in the name of the People. The best example of that kind of law before SB1070 was the "Communications Decency Act". They knew is was an infringement upon the 1st amendment but it made the legislators look like they were "doing something".
From: Aratzio on 29 Jul 2010 19:10 On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 17:41:16 -0500, in the land of alt.aratzio, pandora <pandora(a)peak.org> got double secret probation for writing: >On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 16:36:11 -0500, CharlesGrozny wrote: > >> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno(a)e86.GTS> wrote in message >> news:H6l4o.37748$lS1.24264(a)newsfe12.iad... >>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:36:28 -0500, pandora wrote: >>> >>>>> <YAWN> Here we go with the straw man of "infringing on the rights of >>>>> US citizens." The law wasn't written about US citizens or Legal >>>>> Aliens. Why did you have a Green Card? You have to produce it if >>>>> asked for it. There is nothing illegal or unconstitutional about >>>>> that. >>>> >>>> I'm not a citizen. And yes, the law, as written, would do exactly >>>> that. >>> >>> How so? If you have a Green Card, you have to produce it to any LEA >>> asking to see it. You know that. You could just be walking down the >>> street, and if a cop comes up to you and asks you for ID, are you going >>> to refuse? >>> >>> >>> >>> >> Ahh for the old days, when aliens had to register by Jan 31st of each >> year. >> >> Charles Grozny > >And that would change exactly what? More government jobs.
From: Aratzio on 29 Jul 2010 19:17 On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 22:55:54 +0000 (UTC), in the land of alt.impeach.bush, Meat Plow <mhywatt(a)yahoo.com> got double secret probation for writing: >On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 17:47:06 -0500, pandora wrote: > >> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 22:25:54 +0000, Meat Plow wrote: >> >>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 17:15:24 -0500, pandora wrote: >>> >>>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 16:01:43 -0400, Hachiroku ???? wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:36:28 -0500, pandora wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>> <YAWN> Here we go with the straw man of "infringing on the rights >>>>>>> of US citizens." The law wasn't written about US citizens or Legal >>>>>>> Aliens. Why did you have a Green Card? You have to produce it if >>>>>>> asked for it. There is nothing illegal or unconstitutional about >>>>>>> that. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm not a citizen. And yes, the law, as written, would do exactly >>>>>> that. >>>>> >>>>> How so? If you have a Green Card, you have to produce it to any LEA >>>>> asking to see it. You know that. You could just be walking down the >>>>> street, and if a cop comes up to you and asks you for ID, are you >>>>> going to refuse? >>>> >>>> Of course not. But then, I'm not a US citizen and I'm *required* to >>>> carry my Green Card on me at all times. US citizens are not required >>>> to do that. As well, it was an agreement that I made in order to be >>>> allowed to live and work here. No such agreement is given by those >>>> born here. >>>> >>>> We've been through this before and all I can conclude is that you just >>>> don't wish to admit that the Arizona law impinged on the rights of >>>> legal US citizens and residents. >>> >>> Not being too well informed on that law but trusting your knowledge on >>> it, what rights of US citizens are being impinged upon? >> >> The right to travel freely between states as well as to NOT be asked for >> papers proving citizenship or resident status. You, (presuming you are >> a US citizen) are not required to show *papers* ala Nazi Germany. > >So I understand that there are checkpoints set up along the roadways ala >Nazi Germany and everyone is forced to show their "papers" ? >If not please correct me. The law allowed the police to detain anyone that did not have papers. A clear violation of the 4th amendment. The need to carry identification is well settled law in the USA and the citizens are not required to carry identification. If you can insure that the protections exist for all citizens and legal residents that their 4th amendment rights will not be violated then the law would be constitutional. You cannot detain someone unless there is evidence of a crime. Not having ID is no crime.
From: Meat Plow on 29 Jul 2010 19:21
On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 16:17:19 -0700, Aratzio wrote: > On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 22:55:54 +0000 (UTC), in the land of > alt.impeach.bush, Meat Plow <mhywatt(a)yahoo.com> got double secret > probation for writing: > >>On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 17:47:06 -0500, pandora wrote: >> >>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 22:25:54 +0000, Meat Plow wrote: >>> >>>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 17:15:24 -0500, pandora wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 16:01:43 -0400, Hachiroku ???? wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:36:28 -0500, pandora wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>> <YAWN> Here we go with the straw man of "infringing on the rights >>>>>>>> of US citizens." The law wasn't written about US citizens or >>>>>>>> Legal Aliens. Why did you have a Green Card? You have to produce >>>>>>>> it if asked for it. There is nothing illegal or unconstitutional >>>>>>>> about that. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm not a citizen. And yes, the law, as written, would do exactly >>>>>>> that. >>>>>> >>>>>> How so? If you have a Green Card, you have to produce it to any LEA >>>>>> asking to see it. You know that. You could just be walking down the >>>>>> street, and if a cop comes up to you and asks you for ID, are you >>>>>> going to refuse? >>>>> >>>>> Of course not. But then, I'm not a US citizen and I'm *required* to >>>>> carry my Green Card on me at all times. US citizens are not >>>>> required to do that. As well, it was an agreement that I made in >>>>> order to be allowed to live and work here. No such agreement is >>>>> given by those born here. >>>>> >>>>> We've been through this before and all I can conclude is that you >>>>> just don't wish to admit that the Arizona law impinged on the rights >>>>> of legal US citizens and residents. >>>> >>>> Not being too well informed on that law but trusting your knowledge >>>> on it, what rights of US citizens are being impinged upon? >>> >>> The right to travel freely between states as well as to NOT be asked >>> for papers proving citizenship or resident status. You, (presuming >>> you are a US citizen) are not required to show *papers* ala Nazi >>> Germany. >> >>So I understand that there are checkpoints set up along the roadways ala >>Nazi Germany and everyone is forced to show their "papers" ? If not >>please correct me. > > The law allowed the police to detain anyone that did not have papers. A > clear violation of the 4th amendment. The need to carry identification > is well settled law in the USA and the citizens are not required to > carry identification. Sorry to snip but you are wrong. Be detained by the police in any state and fail to produce identification....you know the rest. |