What did Toyota know, and when did they know it?
in [Toyota Prius]
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From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 24 Feb 2010 14:51 On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:44:12 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote: > On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:54:30 -0500, Hachiroku <Trueno(a)e86.GTS> wrote: > >>On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:19:11 -0500, C. E. White wrote: >> >>>> Just what happened to Daimler and Chrysler, Daimler thought they could >>>> boot-strap Chrysler into a maker of reliable cars for the American >>>> market, instead Chrysler pulled Daimler down to it's level, now after >>>> a messy divorce, Daimler's reliability is seriously in question and >>>> they're having to through a lot of money at building reliability and >>>> prestige again. >>> >>> Youa re going to have to explain to me how Chrysler pulled Daimler down >>> to it's level. >> >> >>Um, that's pretty much what happened. I don't know how. It was something >>like a very good swimmer going out to rescue someone who was drowning, >>and the drowner pulls the good swimmer under. > > It's nothing like that. Or will you claim that if two people go to dinner > and one orders clams and the other gets a ham sandwich that if the guy who > ordered the clams gets sick the guy will the ham sandwich will also have > to go to the doctor??? There's an interesting publication called the Wall Street Journal. It's available to you, I'm sure, but at last check it cost $1.50. You'd have to learn to read better, first. There's a LOT of big words in there. If you could, you'd find that Diamler's troubles didn't start until into their affiliation with Chrysler, and that they shed Chrysler just as much for that reason as they did for losing money. > > > That's why >>Diamler dumped Chrysler on the market for comparatively pennies. Diamler >>quality suffered during the partnership. >> >> > Chrysler was abused by MB. If problems developed they were due solely to > MB own actions.
From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 24 Feb 2010 14:53 On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:50:46 +0000, Clive wrote: > In message <uhi9o51jh1ht26t0qf5htbgg78la21gjap(a)4ax.com>, Ashton Crusher > <demi(a)moore.net> writes >>Chrysler was abused by MB. If problems developed they were due solely to >>MB own actions. > You've got the gall to criticize Toyota owners, have you ever heard of a > biblical quotation sat say's "remove the plank from your own eye before > condemning some with a speck in theirs"? A closer look into Asshton's head? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB_w1w_si_k
From: C. E. White on 25 Feb 2010 12:17 "Clive" <clive(a)yewbank.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:SeLuHGD8ZHhLFwNT(a)yewbank.demon.co.uk... > In message <hm12mh$91d$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, C. E. White > <cewhite3(a)mindspring.com> writes >> But German >>electronics...well they suck. > You're totally uneducated about Europe then. It's the Italian cars > that have very unreliable electrics. Bosch has an enviable name in > all things electronic and cars are no exception. May-be you're > thinking about some American factory that is turning out Bosch > supplies, over there with locally sourced rubbish parts. Well maybe German cars hold up better in Europe than in the US. But, I've had to many negative experiencs with the eletrical bits of German cars sold in the US to think that Bosch makes everything perfect. I survived 3 VWs, an Audi, a German built Fiesta, and a BMW. All had electrical bits that failed....and failed again...and again. Power windows, alternators, the stupid tail light assembles (who can't build tail light bulb holders that work for 20 years - I tell you who, the Germans!). Maybe the Italians and British do worse - I don't know, we haven't gotten significant numbers of cars from those countries in years. Here is my partially remembered list of electrical failures: Fiesta (German built)- alternator - Bosch, but at least the brushes were easy to repalce....and repalce again. Nothing else electrical on the car that could fail. Audi - cooling fan relay (and I only kept the car 3 years) VW Jetta (German built) - in tank fuel pump - twice, alternator once, all the power windows, fuse box melted VW Passat (German built) -alternator, all the power windows, sunroof motor, instruments went flaky, burned out tail lights constantly VW Jetta (Built in Mexico?) - dash would suddenly stop working and then start again as mysteriously, underhood fuse block melted, taillights burned out constantly, alternator failed, second fuse block showed burned marks, got rid of the car BMW 740 (GErman built) - what didn't go wrong with the electronics - CD Player died, both tailight assemblies had to be replaced becasue the contacts burned up, power windows failed, power seat failed, so many things I can't remeber them all......This car was an absolute money pit. Only the BMW was purchased used (with less than 80k miles). All the others were purchased new. I like German cars. Thye usually fit me well, are comfortable, drive well, and look great. But I don't think they are as reliable as American or Japanese built cars. If I had plenty of excess cash, I'd probably buy a Mercedes, but I don't think I'd expect the sort of reliability you get from a Camry and I don't have plenty of cash. Ed
From: Clive on 25 Feb 2010 19:29 In message <hm6bb0$a2l$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, C. E. White <cewhite3(a)mindspring.com> writes >Fiesta (German built)- alternator - Bosch, but at least the brushes >were easy to repalce....and repalce again. Nothing else electrical on >the car that could fail. >Audi - cooling fan relay (and I only kept the car 3 years) >VW Jetta (German built) - in tank fuel pump - twice, alternator once, >all the power windows, fuse box melted >VW Passat (German built) -alternator, all the power windows, sunroof >motor, instruments went flaky, burned out tail lights constantly >VW Jetta (Built in Mexico?) - dash would suddenly stop working and >then start again as mysteriously, underhood fuse block melted, >taillights burned out constantly, alternator failed, second fuse block >showed burned marks, got rid of the car >BMW 740 (GErman built) - what didn't go wrong with the electronics - >CD Player died, both tailight assemblies had to be replaced becasue >the contacts burned up, power windows failed, power seat failed, so >many things I can't remeber them all......This car was an absolute >money pit. > >Only the BMW was purchased used (with less than 80k miles). All the >others were purchased new. > >I like German cars. Thye usually fit me well, are comfortable, drive >well, and look great. But I don't think they are as reliable as >American or Japanese built cars. You're right they're not as reliable as Japanese cars, but nothing is as unreliable (India and China excepted) as an American car. -- Clive
From: Bob Cooper on 25 Feb 2010 20:10
In article <aYBMmcDXXxhLFwsy(a)yewbank.demon.co.uk>, clive(a)yewbank.demon.co.uk says... > > In message <hm6bb0$a2l$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, C. E. White > <cewhite3(a)mindspring.com> writes > >Fiesta (German built)- alternator - Bosch, but at least the brushes > >were easy to repalce....and repalce again. Nothing else electrical on > >the car that could fail. > >Audi - cooling fan relay (and I only kept the car 3 years) > >VW Jetta (German built) - in tank fuel pump - twice, alternator once, > >all the power windows, fuse box melted > >VW Passat (German built) -alternator, all the power windows, sunroof > >motor, instruments went flaky, burned out tail lights constantly > >VW Jetta (Built in Mexico?) - dash would suddenly stop working and > >then start again as mysteriously, underhood fuse block melted, > >taillights burned out constantly, alternator failed, second fuse block > >showed burned marks, got rid of the car > >BMW 740 (GErman built) - what didn't go wrong with the electronics - > >CD Player died, both tailight assemblies had to be replaced becasue > >the contacts burned up, power windows failed, power seat failed, so > >many things I can't remeber them all......This car was an absolute > >money pit. > > > >Only the BMW was purchased used (with less than 80k miles). All the > >others were purchased new. > > > >I like German cars. Thye usually fit me well, are comfortable, drive > >well, and look great. But I don't think they are as reliable as > >American or Japanese built cars. > You're right they're not as reliable as Japanese cars, but nothing is as > unreliable (India and China excepted) as an American car. And here we have Clive, a British expert on German, American, Chinese, Indian, and Japanese cars. He is a most welcome addition to our current team of world auto experts, Jim Beam and HairyChoke. With this team, rec.autos.tech is now ready to take global questions. We are fortunate, indeed. |