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From: SMS on 8 Jan 2010 13:50
clare(a)snyder.on.ca wrote:

> If the Toyotas didn't hold their value so well I'd likely be driving
> them now, but I buy what I can buy 5 years old for $5000 - $6000 with
> 100,000km (60,000 miles) on them and Toyotas don't fall into that
> price range up here even with 300,000 kms.

That's the basic problem with Toyotas (and Hondas), they are usually a
bad deal to buy used because they retain so much of their value.

Another issue is that new Toyotas are heavily discounted so even a
half-conscious buyer can buy a new one for less than what an uninformed
buyer can buy a used one for.

I have one acquaintance that works at a Toyota dealership and I asked
him why there were so few used Toyotas on the lot and he explained it to
me. Most of the used Toyotas are sent to other Ford, GM, and Chrysler
dealerships that are owned by the same automotive group. Used Toyotas on
a Ford, GM, or Chrysler lot will fetch a higher price than used Toyotas
on a Toyota lot. Someone visiting a Toyota lot either knows that they
can get their new car for well-under invoice, or is dumb enough to pay
MSRP, but they're not going to pay top-dollar for a used Toyota like the
visitor to the Ford or GM lot. We actually did buy a used Toyota from
the Toyota dealership, one they had had on their lot for six months and
were desperate to get rid of so they let it go for what seemed to be a
good deal. Of course the problem with a used car is that the bumper to
bumper warranty is much shorter so that's the risk you take.

Don't think that the Toyotas or Hondas you see on a Ford, GM, or
Chrysler lot were traded in for a new Ford, GM, or Chrysler--in most
cases they weren't. The used Ford and GM vehicles are wholesaled out to
those used car lots that are usually scattered along auto rows. The Ford
and GM dealers make more (per vehicle) selling used Toyotas and Hondas
than they make selling new Ford and GM products.
From: Mike Hunter on 8 Jan 2010 14:39
You and your friend are full of it, all brands return more in their own
store, period. When we traded a domestic on an import in one of our import
stores we sold it at our domestic store and visa versa, dummy

We ALWAYS made a higher gross profit on new and used Toyotas in our Toyota
stores than our domestic stores because Toyota buyers were convinced they
were "better," not because they were better.

If you doubt that dealers earn more on imports, look at the difference in
ratio of wholesale to retail in the NADA Guide, for imports and domestics.
The dealer earns more on imports because they can trade imports for LESS and
sell more of the smoke and mirrors packages to import buyers. We even made
more profit in our import stores with our $20 HIGHER shop rates, as well.

Toyota touts retail value, but the Toyota buyer never see that value when
they trade on another Toyota. You will NEVER get wholesale for your Toyota
trade at a Toyota store.


"SMS" <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote in message
news:4b477e47$0$1584$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net...
> clare(a)snyder.on.ca wrote:
>
>> If the Toyotas didn't hold their value so well I'd likely be driving
>> them now, but I buy what I can buy 5 years old for $5000 - $6000 with
>> 100,000km (60,000 miles) on them and Toyotas don't fall into that
>> price range up here even with 300,000 kms.
>
> That's the basic problem with Toyotas (and Hondas), they are usually a bad
> deal to buy used because they retain so much of their value.
>
> Another issue is that new Toyotas are heavily discounted so even a
> half-conscious buyer can buy a new one for less than what an uninformed
> buyer can buy a used one for.
>
> I have one acquaintance that works at a Toyota dealership and I asked him
> why there were so few used Toyotas on the lot and he explained it to me.
> Most of the used Toyotas are sent to other Ford, GM, and Chrysler
> dealerships that are owned by the same automotive group. Used Toyotas on a
> Ford, GM, or Chrysler lot will fetch a higher price than used Toyotas on a
> Toyota lot. Someone visiting a Toyota lot either knows that they can get
> their new car for well-under invoice, or is dumb enough to pay MSRP, but
> they're not going to pay top-dollar for a used Toyota like the visitor to
> the Ford or GM lot. We actually did buy a used Toyota from the Toyota
> dealership, one they had had on their lot for six months and were
> desperate to get rid of so they let it go for what seemed to be a good
> deal. Of course the problem with a used car is that the bumper to bumper
> warranty is much shorter so that's the risk you take.
>
> Don't think that the Toyotas or Hondas you see on a Ford, GM, or Chrysler
> lot were traded in for a new Ford, GM, or Chrysler--in most cases they
> weren't. The used Ford and GM vehicles are wholesaled out to those used
> car lots that are usually scattered along auto rows. The Ford and GM
> dealers make more (per vehicle) selling used Toyotas and Hondas than they
> make selling new Ford and GM products.


From: Ed Pawlowski on 8 Jan 2010 17:26
C. E. White wrote:
> "Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2(a)lycos,com> wrote in message
> news:4b4779a0$0$10416$ce5e7886(a)news-radius.ptd.net...
>> That may be your opinion but one would suggest that your stop by you
>> local GM, or other domestic dealership, and count all of the so
>> called superior imports you see on their use car lots, that were
>> traded in for a domestic brand.
>
> Is this theory of yours valid?
>
> It seems to me that the local new car dealers in my area mostly off
> load all but the very best trade-ins to either local independent lots
> or auctions. They only keep the very best trade-ins and many of the
> used cars for sale at local new car lots are actually cars picked up
> from rental car auctions. I know the local Ford dealer has a bunch of
> used Toyotas on the lot, but they all appear to be former rental cars,
> not cars traded in for new Fords.

No, his theory is not valid. At least in my town. The local
Buick/exPontiac dealer gets a lot of cars at auction and sends a lot of cars
there too. He has a minimum that he will handle in terms of age and quality.
The rest he takes in trade go to the other local dealers, as you noted.

I was at the Caddy/ex Old dealer in town. He took a Lincoln in trade and
called the local Ford dealer.. He sold it over there. He mentioned that
they often swap cars amongst themselves as Mikey did point out, a used same
model often does sell better at the new car dealership of the same brand.

Same with the Chevy dealer. I know people that have traded at his shop and
a few days later the trade would be sitting for sale up the street at the
low end dealer's place. Some dealers do very well specializing in the low
end 5+ year old stuff that a new franchise won't touch.

I passed the Buick dealer on my way home today. He has a red Lucerne on the
lot that he sold twice before. It originally came from the gold tournament
a few years ago. He handles a lot of "program" cars. He also says he makes
more on them than the new cars.

My grandson also works part time for a Subaru dealer. He takes cars as far
as 200 miles and swaps them, both new and used. Most of the used he brings
in are from auctions and yes, the majority are Subaru.

Mike used to work for one of the big mega dealers. Some of their policies
may be different, but he seems to be unaware of what other small town
dealers do every day.



From: dr_jeff on 8 Jan 2010 18:52
SMS wrote:
> clare(a)snyder.on.ca wrote:
>
>> If the Toyotas didn't hold their value so well I'd likely be driving
>> them now, but I buy what I can buy 5 years old for $5000 - $6000 with
>> 100,000km (60,000 miles) on them and Toyotas don't fall into that
>> price range up here even with 300,000 kms.
>
> That's the basic problem with Toyotas (and Hondas), they are usually a
> bad deal to buy used because they retain so much of their value.
>
> Another issue is that new Toyotas are heavily discounted so even a
> half-conscious buyer can buy a new one for less than what an uninformed
> buyer can buy a used one for.
>
> I have one acquaintance that works at a Toyota dealership and I asked
> him why there were so few used Toyotas on the lot and he explained it to
> me. Most of the used Toyotas are sent to other Ford, GM, and Chrysler
> dealerships that are owned by the same automotive group. Used Toyotas on
> a Ford, GM, or Chrysler lot will fetch a higher price than used Toyotas
> on a Toyota lot. Someone visiting a Toyota lot either knows that they
> can get their new car for well-under invoice, or is dumb enough to pay
> MSRP, but they're not going to pay top-dollar for a used Toyota like the
> visitor to the Ford or GM lot. We actually did buy a used Toyota from
> the Toyota dealership, one they had had on their lot for six months and
> were desperate to get rid of so they let it go for what seemed to be a
> good deal. Of course the problem with a used car is that the bumper to
> bumper warranty is much shorter so that's the risk you take.
>
> Don't think that the Toyotas or Hondas you see on a Ford, GM, or
> Chrysler lot were traded in for a new Ford, GM, or Chrysler--in most
> cases they weren't. The used Ford and GM vehicles are wholesaled out to
> those used car lots that are usually scattered along auto rows. The Ford
> and GM dealers make more (per vehicle) selling used Toyotas and Hondas
> than they make selling new Ford and GM products.

Stop it now! How dare you use knowledge and logic to deflate Mike
Hunter's words. Seriously, this is a rarity. Usually, his logic is
convoluted and false, that he defeats himself. Considering how he shoots
off his mouth about auctions and having owned so many dealerships, one
would think he knows about what he is talking.

Jeff
From: dr_jeff on 8 Jan 2010 18:54
Mike Hunter wrote:
> You and your friend are full of it, all brands return more in their own
> store, period. When we traded a domestic on an import in one of our import
> stores we sold it at our domestic store and visa versa, dummy

So what? That was back in the last millenium.

> We ALWAYS made a higher gross profit on new and used Toyotas in our Toyota
> stores than our domestic stores because Toyota buyers were convinced they
> were "better," not because they were better.

This is a new millenium. No need to do name-calling in this one, either.

> If you doubt that dealers earn more on imports, look at the difference in
> ratio of wholesale to retail in the NADA Guide, for imports and domestics.
> The dealer earns more on imports because they can trade imports for LESS and
> sell more of the smoke and mirrors packages to import buyers. We even made
> more profit in our import stores with our $20 HIGHER shop rates, as well.
>
> Toyota touts retail value, but the Toyota buyer never see that value when
> they trade on another Toyota. You will NEVER get wholesale for your Toyota
> trade at a Toyota store.

If want to believe that, go ahead.

> "SMS" <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote in message
> news:4b477e47$0$1584$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net...
>> clare(a)snyder.on.ca wrote:
>>
>>> If the Toyotas didn't hold their value so well I'd likely be driving
>>> them now, but I buy what I can buy 5 years old for $5000 - $6000 with
>>> 100,000km (60,000 miles) on them and Toyotas don't fall into that
>>> price range up here even with 300,000 kms.
>> That's the basic problem with Toyotas (and Hondas), they are usually a bad
>> deal to buy used because they retain so much of their value.
>>
>> Another issue is that new Toyotas are heavily discounted so even a
>> half-conscious buyer can buy a new one for less than what an uninformed
>> buyer can buy a used one for.
>>
>> I have one acquaintance that works at a Toyota dealership and I asked him
>> why there were so few used Toyotas on the lot and he explained it to me.
>> Most of the used Toyotas are sent to other Ford, GM, and Chrysler
>> dealerships that are owned by the same automotive group. Used Toyotas on a
>> Ford, GM, or Chrysler lot will fetch a higher price than used Toyotas on a
>> Toyota lot. Someone visiting a Toyota lot either knows that they can get
>> their new car for well-under invoice, or is dumb enough to pay MSRP, but
>> they're not going to pay top-dollar for a used Toyota like the visitor to
>> the Ford or GM lot. We actually did buy a used Toyota from the Toyota
>> dealership, one they had had on their lot for six months and were
>> desperate to get rid of so they let it go for what seemed to be a good
>> deal. Of course the problem with a used car is that the bumper to bumper
>> warranty is much shorter so that's the risk you take.
>>
>> Don't think that the Toyotas or Hondas you see on a Ford, GM, or Chrysler
>> lot were traded in for a new Ford, GM, or Chrysler--in most cases they
>> weren't. The used Ford and GM vehicles are wholesaled out to those used
>> car lots that are usually scattered along auto rows. The Ford and GM
>> dealers make more (per vehicle) selling used Toyotas and Hondas than they
>> make selling new Ford and GM products.
>
>
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