Bias Against Domestic Cars
in [Toyota]
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From: clare on 8 Jan 2010 19:31 On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 10:50:26 -0800, SMS <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote: >clare(a)snyder.on.ca wrote: > >> If the Toyotas didn't hold their value so well I'd likely be driving >> them now, but I buy what I can buy 5 years old for $5000 - $6000 with >> 100,000km (60,000 miles) on them and Toyotas don't fall into that >> price range up here even with 300,000 kms. > >That's the basic problem with Toyotas (and Hondas), they are usually a >bad deal to buy used because they retain so much of their value. > >Another issue is that new Toyotas are heavily discounted so even a >half-conscious buyer can buy a new one for less than what an uninformed >buyer can buy a used one for. > Don't find them terribly highly discounted up here in Canada >I have one acquaintance that works at a Toyota dealership and I asked >him why there were so few used Toyotas on the lot and he explained it to >me. Most of the used Toyotas are sent to other Ford, GM, and Chrysler >dealerships that are owned by the same automotive group. Used Toyotas on >a Ford, GM, or Chrysler lot will fetch a higher price than used Toyotas >on a Toyota lot. Someone visiting a Toyota lot either knows that they >can get their new car for well-under invoice, or is dumb enough to pay >MSRP, but they're not going to pay top-dollar for a used Toyota like the >visitor to the Ford or GM lot. We actually did buy a used Toyota from >the Toyota dealership, one they had had on their lot for six months and >were desperate to get rid of so they let it go for what seemed to be a >good deal. Of course the problem with a used car is that the bumper to >bumper warranty is much shorter so that's the risk you take. > >Don't think that the Toyotas or Hondas you see on a Ford, GM, or >Chrysler lot were traded in for a new Ford, GM, or Chrysler--in most >cases they weren't. The used Ford and GM vehicles are wholesaled out to >those used car lots that are usually scattered along auto rows. The Ford >and GM dealers make more (per vehicle) selling used Toyotas and Hondas >than they make selling new Ford and GM products. That's for darn sure.
From: SMS on 8 Jan 2010 19:43 C. E. White wrote: > Last year I trade in my Frontier (in excellent condition) for an F150. > The truck was cherry, but they didn't sell it on their lot. It showed > up at an independnet lot within a couple of days. This surprised me. > The truck was only 3 years old, no blemishes, and less than 80k miles. > But it appears they didn't even try to sell it off their lot. That's what happens at most Ford dealers. They'll wholesale out used vehicles that really are not that old because they just can't sell them on their own lot. What they want on their own used car lot is Hondas and Toyotas. Either they get them from a dealership within their own dealership group (or at least with the same ownership) or they get them from places like rental car fleets (at least for Toyotas, Hondas are rare in rental fleets). It's important to understand that those Toyotas and Hondas you see on the Ford or Chevy lot are rarely the trade-ins of unhappy Toyota and Honda owners that traded their cars in for a Ford or Chevy (this happens, but it's extremely rare that a Toyota or Honda owner would trade for a Ford or Chevy.
From: SMS on 8 Jan 2010 20:22 clare(a)snyder.on.ca wrote: > On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 10:50:26 -0800, SMS <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> > wrote: > >> clare(a)snyder.on.ca wrote: >> >>> If the Toyotas didn't hold their value so well I'd likely be driving >>> them now, but I buy what I can buy 5 years old for $5000 - $6000 with >>> 100,000km (60,000 miles) on them and Toyotas don't fall into that >>> price range up here even with 300,000 kms. >> That's the basic problem with Toyotas (and Hondas), they are usually a >> bad deal to buy used because they retain so much of their value. >> >> Another issue is that new Toyotas are heavily discounted so even a >> half-conscious buyer can buy a new one for less than what an uninformed >> buyer can buy a used one for. >> > > Don't find them terribly highly discounted up here in Canada Hmm, what's the legal situation with buying a U.S. Toyota and driving it back? Even with the taxes it might be a good deal. I've bought three new Toyotas in California, one Land Cruiser, one Camry, and one 4Runner. All were purchased for well under the invoice price which seems to be the price that you go down from (not the MSRP). The dealer does not pay Toyota anything close to the invoice price of course. I'm sure the dealer did just fine on these sales. In fact all three were advertised specials in the newspaper "All in Stock at this Price." Naturally the dealer tries to make up for the relatively low price by selling you a gazillion worthless add-ons, plus financing, warranties, etc., but you're under no obligation to take them. Of course when cars like the Prius were in very high demand you could not get a good price on one, but for the mass market vehicles like Camrys where they crank them out like crazy and want to be the #1 vehicle in the U.S., the MSRP is at least $4500 more than what you have to pay for the base 4 cylinder model. For one of the cars we went down to Southern California to get it because the savings were $1500 over the best price we could get in Northern California (the state is split for distribution purposes, with Southern California getting larger incentives). I told my old boss about this after he was disappointed in the Northern California Lexus prices and he flew down to buy a Lexus (the dealer even picks you up at the airport since they do this sort of thing a lot). Coming back on I-5 I was astounded to see the number of new cars (all brands) being driven north, apparently I was late to know this little trick but people I talked to had been doing it for decades. In checking out used Toyota prices, I found no reason to buy a 2-3 year old Toyota until recently. My wife really wanted a Camry hybrid, and we bought it at a time when gas prices were down, and hybrid sales were in the tank. Personally it would not have been my first choice, but it was a good deal, which closed about an hour before sales tax went up.
From: Canuck57 on 8 Jan 2010 20:28 On 08/01/2010 2:32 PM, Jim Higgins wrote: > GM, GM at any cost! Damn the Dexcool, full gaskets ahead!" And I bet they still haven't fixed those issues with new models.
From: Canuck57 on 8 Jan 2010 22:23
On 08/01/2010 12:39 PM, Mike Hunter wrote: > You and your friend are full of it, all brands return more in their own > store, period. When we traded a domestic on an import in one of our import > stores we sold it at our domestic store and visa versa, dummy Actually, I thought he was right on. Many dealerships trade vehicles like kids used to trade baseball cards. > We ALWAYS made a higher gross profit on new and used Toyotas in our Toyota > stores than our domestic stores because Toyota buyers were convinced they > were "better," not because they were better. I can believe that, I don't see where he disputes that. But they really are better. > If you doubt that dealers earn more on imports, look at the difference in > ratio of wholesale to retail in the NADA Guide, for imports and domestics. > The dealer earns more on imports because they can trade imports for LESS and > sell more of the smoke and mirrors packages to import buyers. We even made > more profit in our import stores with our $20 HIGHER shop rates, as well. Whole sale, MSRP, invoice, all a bunch of BS these days. It it means something I haven't paid more than invoice since 1989. Bought a Chrysler POC minivan. Last Chrysler I even considered buying. > Toyota touts retail value, but the Toyota buyer never see that value when > they trade on another Toyota. You will NEVER get wholesale for your Toyota > trade at a Toyota store. I bet most Toyota's don't even make them too the lot, family hand me downs. Parents drive it for 14 years and 200,000 on the odo then give it to the kids or keep it as a second car. > "SMS"<scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote in message > news:4b477e47$0$1584$742ec2ed(a)news.sonic.net... >> clare(a)snyder.on.ca wrote: >> >>> If the Toyotas didn't hold their value so well I'd likely be driving >>> them now, but I buy what I can buy 5 years old for $5000 - $6000 with >>> 100,000km (60,000 miles) on them and Toyotas don't fall into that >>> price range up here even with 300,000 kms. >> >> That's the basic problem with Toyotas (and Hondas), they are usually a bad >> deal to buy used because they retain so much of their value. >> >> Another issue is that new Toyotas are heavily discounted so even a >> half-conscious buyer can buy a new one for less than what an uninformed >> buyer can buy a used one for. >> >> I have one acquaintance that works at a Toyota dealership and I asked him >> why there were so few used Toyotas on the lot and he explained it to me. >> Most of the used Toyotas are sent to other Ford, GM, and Chrysler >> dealerships that are owned by the same automotive group. Used Toyotas on a >> Ford, GM, or Chrysler lot will fetch a higher price than used Toyotas on a >> Toyota lot. Someone visiting a Toyota lot either knows that they can get >> their new car for well-under invoice, or is dumb enough to pay MSRP, but >> they're not going to pay top-dollar for a used Toyota like the visitor to >> the Ford or GM lot. We actually did buy a used Toyota from the Toyota >> dealership, one they had had on their lot for six months and were >> desperate to get rid of so they let it go for what seemed to be a good >> deal. Of course the problem with a used car is that the bumper to bumper >> warranty is much shorter so that's the risk you take. >> >> Don't think that the Toyotas or Hondas you see on a Ford, GM, or Chrysler >> lot were traded in for a new Ford, GM, or Chrysler--in most cases they >> weren't. The used Ford and GM vehicles are wholesaled out to those used >> car lots that are usually scattered along auto rows. The Ford and GM >> dealers make more (per vehicle) selling used Toyotas and Hondas than they >> make selling new Ford and GM products. > > |