And now, a word about head gaskets...
in [Toyota]
|
Prev: Toyota 'quality'. Heh.
Next: Suppose this plane crashes
From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 8 Jun 2010 18:14 On Tue, 08 Jun 2010 10:19:24 -0500, Vic Smith wrote: > On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 17:54:23 -0400, Hachiroku ???? <Trueno(a)e86.GTS> wrote: > >>It has been recommended (RE: my '88 Supra with an apparent BHG...) that I >>PARK THE CAR AND PULL THE HEAD! >> >>So, this I will do. Given that once I pull the head the HG is toast even >>if it's not blown, I obviously have to buy a new one. >> >>I have seen them as low as $17; also $26, with $58 being the usual >>on-line price. Beck-Arnley wants ~$60, some places advertise Fel-Pro at >>$58, or $17, or $26. My band's guitar player said yesterday, "Eh, $12, >>big deal". I told him about the prices I was finding. >> >>Toyota's list is $115; the best on-line price I have found is $85 and the >>locval dealer will match that. >> >>I'm kinda answering my own question here. The 7M-GE has a nasty habit of >>blowing HGs, and IIRC the HG was replaced on this car a year before I >>bought it. he total cost of the job was a shade under $1,000. When I had >>the valve covers off to replace the gaskets I checked the torque on the >>head bolts and they were above 68 ft/lbs; the original spec was 58 >>ft/lbs and a Toyota TSB about BHGs said 72 ft/lbs (IIRC) was recommended, >>so whoever did the job knew they had to use the revised spec. I'm betting >>they used and off-the-rack gasket and maybe mostly responsible for why I >>have to do it again. >> >>So, do I go aftermarket, save a few bucks and perhaps have to do it all >>again in 7 years or so? The car is now 22 years old. If I do have to do >>the HG again it will be ~30 years old; it's not in *bad* shape, but it's >>not a Collector's Item, either. >> >>Or, do I spend the $85 and get the Real Deal and hope things are good >>enough to get another 80,000 miles out of it (it has ~220,000 now...)? >> >>The thing I SHOULD do, obviously, is pull the engine and have the whole >>thing refreshed. A local engine guy, who's one of the best in the country >>quoted me $2200 for complete bottom end refurb, and I know when I get it >>back it will be one of the best 7M-GEs in the country. >> >> > If there's a Supra forum(s), check that out for gasket recommendations. > It's not a given the Fel-Pro will have the best gasket. For the GM 3800 > Series II lower intakes the Fel-Pro was said to be identical to the > problematic OEM. > In mid-2005 GM came out with an aluminum framed LIM gasket that is > considered the one that won't fail. Fel-Pro doesn't have it. Toyota may > have the best gasket. Might be harder to get a good gasket judgement on > the 7M-GE versus the 3800 Series II due to difference in the pool of > experience though. > Rebuild versus doing the head gasket gets called mostly by the pain of > doing the head gasket and how bad you want the car and how long you figure > to have it. > If it's a fairly easy job you just might do the HG. Keep in mind how long > the local guy will be available and working too. Nobody is forever. > I've had cars that I wouldn't think twice about spending $3-4k putting in > a brand new long block. But usually body rust makes the whole deal a bad > one. Did it once though, and no regrets. Consider how you'll feel if your > cost/labor doing the HG gets paid back a few months later with a rod > knock. Happened to me when I did heads in the high mile 350 I had in my > van. Just a waste of time/money. > Once you open an engine you can find the work expanding. For example on > the 350 I had a burned valve. Well, when the heads are off you really > want to replace those 16 old lifters, right? Whoa, there's quite a bit of > carbon on those piston tops and I see a little scoring on the cylinder > walls. Maybe I should do the lower end. You get the picture. > And really scour info sources before you start. To cut this off and maybe > provide something useful I'm starting a new thread to discuss this a bit > in the tech and GM groups. Shop manual versus net know-how. > > --Vic ARRRRRGGGGHHHHH! Thanks! Now my brain REALLY hurts! I have a job where I drive a lot, and all day I was weighing the options: it's a 22 year old car, with 220,000 miles on it. I can get ~80,000 or less out of it, depending. However, the way it runs it may go more. Also: transmission needs work. LSD is on the way out. Body has some rust, but not bad, but I have to get on it soon. Needs either a new PS high pressure hose, and/or PS pump, and/or rack and pinion... This is my third sports car, and my third major headache. You think I'd learn by now and buy stoic, solid sedans and stay away from the high-strung models. But, where's the fun in that? So, I can do the majority of the body work myself, and there is a guitar player in my band who will help with the harder stuff and paint it (he does EXCELLENT paint jobs...). I can probably do the HG myself, but beyond that I'd have to seek professional help... So, do I patch it and run it till it blows, go all through it and hope it gets another 100,000 miles, sell it, or... I always wanted a Supra. There are better examples out there, and there are a lot worse. This is a good base car for a rebuild. (There's also another one, literally around the corner with a fresh HG and a turbo for $1500...the kid bought a truck) Of course, there's also the 1990 Mitsubishi 3000GT I saw today for $1700... always wanted one of those, too... ;) I am leaning towards parking it for 2-3 years and going through it system by system until it is one of the better stock Supras on the East Coast...
From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 8 Jun 2010 18:15 On Tue, 08 Jun 2010 15:36:03 -0400, Mike Hunter wrote: > Toyota, like GM and all of the other auto manufactures, were victims of > the governments banning asbestos without allowing the gasket manufacturers > time to develop proper replacement materials This is pretty much exactly what happened. The original spec was for an asbestos HG, and had to change at the last minute. > > > "Vic Smith" <thismailautodeleted(a)comcast.net> wrote in message > news:qiks0693euu1s0opf6fhfemgpjoaaikrgn(a)4ax.com... >> On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 17:54:23 -0400, Hachiroku ???? <Trueno(a)e86.GTS> >> wrote: >> >>>It has been recommended (RE: my '88 Supra with an apparent BHG...) that >>>I PARK THE CAR AND PULL THE HEAD! >>> >>> > > >> If there's a Supra forum(s), check that out for gasket recommendations. >> It's not a given the Fel-Pro will have the best gasket. For the GM 3800 >> Series II lower intakes the Fel-Pro was said to be identical to the >> problematic OEM. >> In mid-2005 GM came out with an aluminum framed LIM gasket that is >> considered the one that won't fail. Fel-Pro doesn't have it. Toyota may >> have the best gasket. Might be harder to get a good gasket judgement on >> the 7M-GE versus the 3800 Series II due to difference in the pool of >> experience though. >> Rebuild versus doing the head gasket gets called mostly by the pain of >> doing the head gasket and how bad you want the car and how long you >> figure to have it. >> If it's a fairly easy job you just might do the HG. Keep in mind how >> long the local guy will be available and working too. Nobody is forever. >> I've had cars that I wouldn't think twice about spending $3-4k putting >> in a brand new long block. But usually body rust makes the whole deal a >> bad one. Did it once though, and no regrets. Consider how you'll feel >> if your cost/labor doing the HG gets paid back a few months later with a >> rod knock. Happened to me when I did heads in the high mile 350 I had in >> my van. Just a waste of time/money. >> Once you open an engine you can find the work expanding. For example on >> the 350 I had a burned valve. Well, when the heads are off you really >> want to replace those 16 old lifters, right? Whoa, there's quite a bit >> of carbon on those piston tops and I see a little scoring on the >> cylinder walls. Maybe I should do the lower end. You get the picture. >> And really scour info sources before you start. To cut this off and >> maybe provide something useful I'm starting a new thread to discuss this >> a bit in the tech and GM groups. Shop manual versus net know-how. >> >> --Vic
From: dsi1 on 8 Jun 2010 18:45 On 6/8/2010 12:14 PM, Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B wrote: > > This is my third sports car, and my third major headache. You think I'd > learn by now and buy stoic, solid sedans and stay away from the > high-strung models. But, where's the fun in that? Not much fun however, if this is a habit you wish to break, just get married and have kids - this will pretty much put an end to you having fun. I dimly remember my father coming home with a convertible when we was kids and we took our first ride in it. Now that was fun! My dad was excited and so were we. My guess is that having two (three?) excited kids in that thing scared my mother to death and that was pretty much the last time we rode or saw that car. Poor dad... > > So, I can do the majority of the body work myself, and there is a guitar > player in my band who will help with the harder stuff and paint it (he > does EXCELLENT paint jobs...). I can probably do the HG myself, but beyond > that I'd have to seek professional help... > > So, do I patch it and run it till it blows, go all through it and hope it > gets another 100,000 miles, sell it, or... > > I always wanted a Supra. There are better examples out there, and there > are a lot worse. This is a good base car for a rebuild. (There's also > another one, literally around the corner with a fresh HG and a turbo for > $1500...the kid bought a truck) > > Of course, there's also the 1990 Mitsubishi 3000GT I saw today for $1700... > always wanted one of those, too... ;) > > I am leaning towards parking it for 2-3 years and going through it system > by system until it is one of the better stock Supras on the East Coast... > > >
From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 8 Jun 2010 19:27 On Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:45:26 -1000, dsi1 wrote: > On 6/8/2010 12:14 PM, Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B wrote: >> >> This is my third sports car, and my third major headache. You think I'd >> learn by now and buy stoic, solid sedans and stay away from the >> high-strung models. But, where's the fun in that? > > Not much fun however, if this is a habit you wish to break, just get > married and have kids - this will pretty much put an end to you having > fun. I dimly remember my father coming home with a convertible when we was > kids and we took our first ride in it. Now that was fun! My dad was > excited and so were we. My guess is that having two (three?) excited kids > in that thing scared my mother to death and that was pretty much the last > time we rode or saw that car. Poor dad... LOL! I bet. But the kids are growed and out and after the divorce I was left with a big, empty hole in my life (or, without, depending on your POV...) so when this car came up for near nothing I decided I'd do it. I get attatched to my cars. However, this one has me thinking about eBay... I love Toyotas, and this is the flagship. But it's the cash situation... > > >> So, I can do the majority of the body work myself, and there is a guitar >> player in my band who will help with the harder stuff and paint it (he >> does EXCELLENT paint jobs...). I can probably do the HG myself, but >> beyond that I'd have to seek professional help... >> >> So, do I patch it and run it till it blows, go all through it and hope >> it gets another 100,000 miles, sell it, or... >> >> I always wanted a Supra. There are better examples out there, and there >> are a lot worse. This is a good base car for a rebuild. (There's also >> another one, literally around the corner with a fresh HG and a turbo for >> $1500...the kid bought a truck) >> >> Of course, there's also the 1990 Mitsubishi 3000GT I saw today for >> $1700... always wanted one of those, too... ;) >> >> I am leaning towards parking it for 2-3 years and going through it >> system by system until it is one of the better stock Supras on the East >> Coast... >> >> >> >>
From: aarcuda69062 on 8 Jun 2010 19:51
In article <qiks0693euu1s0opf6fhfemgpjoaaikrgn(a)4ax.com>, Vic Smith <thismailautodeleted(a)comcast.net> wrote: > It's not a given the Fel-Pro will have the best gasket. > For the GM 3800 Series II lower intakes the Fel-Pro was said to be > identical to the problematic OEM. > In mid-2005 GM came out with an aluminum framed LIM gasket that is > considered the one that won't fail. Fel-Pro doesn't have it. Not true. Fel-Pro part number 98014T |