electronic throttle
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From: AMuzi on 15 Mar 2010 20:29 Clive wrote: > In message <ts2dncwHgrWW3APWnZ2dnUVZ_uOdnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net>, jim beam > <me(a)privacy.net> writes >> dude, you're utterly clueless. this is about control systems. >> diesels have had control systems from day one. have you any idea >> /why/ they're always used? what would you have us do to them? > After looking at the workshop manuals for both my 02 Nissan Almera > diesel and my 09 Toyota Auris SR180 diesel, I see that both are > electronically controlled. My Nissan uses a pump injection system with > a primary injection (to reduce the noise) of 180 bar, my Toyota on the > other hand uses a common rail injection system with a pressure of 2000 bar. Thirty thousand pounds per square inch? wow. -- Andrew Muzi <www.yellowjersey.org/> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
From: Dave on 15 Mar 2010 21:02 "Rodan" <Rodan(a)Verizon.NOT> wrote in message news:3jice3.b0j.19.1(a)whidbey.net... > "jim beam" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote; > > dude, you're utterly clueless. this is about control systems. > diesels have had control systems from day one. > have you any idea /why/ they're always used? > what would you have us do to them? > ______________________________________________________________ > > Please ask an experienced diesel mechanic that question. > Surely he/she will tell you that diesels have no throttle > plate to control, therefore no use for a throttle plate cable. > > As you gain experience as a devil's advocate, please try > to keep your demurrals related to the subject at hand, > lest your sincere postings be mistaken for trolling. > > Rodan. Much, much too late.
From: dizzy on 15 Mar 2010 21:35 clare(a)snyder.on.ca wrote: > dizzy wrote: > >>>When you have really sloppy conditions >> >>Interesting theory, with zero proof. >> >>I'd like to see the theory put to the test. Slipping tires does not >>equal shortest stop. > >I don't understand what you are saying and agreeing or dissagreeing >with. Assertions have been made that ABS "doesn't work so well" in "slippery" or "really sloppy" conditions", which I believe are absurd. It's provably better than the alternative in some ways (stability and control), while being (I believe) no worse in ultimate stopping ability. There's a lot of handwaving in here, but no reference to any independant tests which show that ABS "doesn't work so well" at what it's design to do.
From: C. E. White on 15 Mar 2010 21:44 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rodan" <Rodan(a)Verizon.NOT> > The possibilities are endless. Isn't progress wonderful. > Are you tired of pulling a cord to raise > your venetian blinds? Do it with a servo control system just like the > electronic throttle. Done. http://www.yourblinds.com/motorized_remote_blinds.asp > How about your lawnmower starter cable? Done - called an electric starter, http://shopping.yahoo.com/713009843-toro-recycler-electric-start-lawn-mower/;_ylt=A2KJ389K3J5L8TQARBgbFt0A > Your church bell rope? Done at least two ways - mechanically operated real bells and electrically synthesized bells. http://www.electrictime.com/controls_and_chimes/bell_hammer_actuator_50lbs_22_7kg http://www.verdin.com/carillons/ http://www.schulmerich.com/products_towers_overview.php > Your light fixture pull chain? Done. They call it a wall switch. I think Edison had them. But they also have remotely operated light controls. http://www.securitystoreusa.com/Safety+Technology+Inc.+HW2165D+Wireless+Light+Sock-p/491371.htm > Your tampon string? Not my area of interest.... > As our lives are impacted by their leadership, the wisdom of the throttle > cable replacement scientists will be demonstrated again and again. Are you old enough to remember the good old days? Spark ignition, carburetors, etc.... I am . I'll stick with the current stuff. Hard for me to diagnosis, but then I can't remember the last time I had a problem that needed diagnosing that was related to a problem with the electronics other than failed mechanical bits (like connectors). Consider this - if a mechanical throttle is jammed open, the driver must intervene. A properly designed electronic system can recognize a conflict and shut the engine down without driver intervention. I've actually had a mechanical throttle fail. I've never had it happen with an electrically controlled one. I know this doesn't prove anything, but I see no reason to believe that an electronically controlled throttle can't be much safer and more reliable than a mechanical system. And the electronic systems do have advantages other than improved safety. Ed
From: C. E. White on 15 Mar 2010 23:18
"dizzy" <dizzy(a)nospam.invalid> wrote in message news:2rntp5dqtgbe1ck077l0lgg5mfuslnq2oa(a)4ax.com... > clare(a)snyder.on.ca wrote: > >> dizzy wrote: >> >>>>When you have really sloppy conditions >>> >>>Interesting theory, with zero proof. >>> >>>I'd like to see the theory put to the test. Slipping tires does not >>>equal shortest stop. Actually maximum braking force on dry pavement is achieved when the tires are "slipping" slightly. See http://insideracingtechnology.com/tirebkexerpt2.htm figure 6.8. Also http://code.eng.buffalo.edu/dat/sites/tire/img55.gif http://f1elites.com/4d/?p=54 >>I don't understand what you are saying and agreeing or dissagreeing >>with. > > Assertions have been made that ABS "doesn't work so well" in > "slippery" or "really sloppy" conditions", which I believe are absurd. > It's provably better than the alternative in some ways (stability and > control), while being (I believe) no worse in ultimate stopping > ability. Some ABS systems do have problems under some low traction conditions. Many tests have shown that some ABS system perform poorly on dirt and gravel roads and on sorft snow compared to non-ABS system. Toyota actually claims their ABS systems "includes a sophisticated gravel road strategy, which in the special circumstance of braking on a gravel road ensures the tyres brake through the loose gravel to maximise stopping power." > There's a lot of handwaving in here, but no reference to any > independant tests which show that ABS "doesn't work so well" at what > it's design to do. On the other hand evidence that ABS has actually improved highway safety is not conclusive. From http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811182.PDF : "Statistical analyses based on data for calendar years 1995 to 2007 from the Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS) and the General Estimates System (GES) of the National Automotive Sampling System (NASS) estimate the long-term effectiveness of antilock brake system (ABS) for passenger cars and LTVs (light trucks and vans) subsequent to the 1995 launch of public information programs on how to use ABS correctly. ABS has close to a zero net effect on fatal crash involvements. Fatal run-off-road crashes of passenger cars increased by a statistically significant 9 percent (90% confidence bounds: 3% to 15% increase), offset by a significant 13-percent reduction in fatal collisions with pedestrians (confidence bounds: 5% to 20%) and a significant 12-percent reduction in collisions with other vehicles on wet roads (confidence bounds: 3% to 20%). ABS is quite effective in nonfatal crashes, reducing the overall crashinvolvement rate by 6 percent in passenger cars (confidence bounds: 4% to 8%) and by 8 percent in LTVs (confidence bounds: 3% to 11%). The combination of electronic stability control (ESC) and ABS will prevent a large proportion of fatal and nonfatal crashes." NHTSA spent millions trying to figure out why ABS wasn't providing a significant net safety benefit. They finally gave up. However, it is irrelevant whether it is a net safety benefit or not, all new light vehicles will soon have ABS since ABS is an integral part of the ESC systems that NHTSA has mandated. I have always felt that ABS and ESC are not cost effective means for achieving the goal of improved traffic safety. Installing these components in all vehicle will cost Consumers billions of dollars per year. Spending this amount of money on better tires, improved driver training, highway improvements, etc., in my opinion, all have the potential for improving traffic safety more than ABS and ESC. I have no problem with ABS and ESC being offered as options, I just don't agree that they should be mandatory. Ed |