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From: aarcuda69062 on 26 Dec 2009 10:14
In article <hh3aap$9m6$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>,
"Jeff Strickland" <crwlrjeff(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

> "aarcuda69062" <nonelson(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:nonelson-4C4285.13202125122009(a)news.eternal-september.org...
> > In article <hh308l$qdj$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>,
> > "Jeff Strickland" <crwlrjeff(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I don't know why you're going off the deep end here, especially given the
> >> original post and the direction of a few replies. The OP wants to buy a
> >> scan
> >> tool, and your advice is not to.
> >
> > Never said anything of the sort, matter of fact, I posted two separate
> > links to the factory recommended tool(s) which somehow according to you
> > are not good enough.
> >
> >> What's up with that?
> >
> > Reading comprehension on your part.
>
> You posted links to stuff that costs in excess of $1000.

Ooohhh... I didn't realize there was a rule about that.

> Unless you make a
> living using stuff like that, you don't need it.

The OP doesn't need service information?
He'll never EVER need the capability to perform a flash update?

You must be his brother (or psychic).

How could one possibly hope to perform any repairs that require a scan
tool with no service information and substandard equipment?

> The OP asked for a scan
> tool, the scan tool he can buy that will help him with over 90% of the stuff
> he can repair in the first place can be found for under $150.

The scan tool I linked to costs $100 more than your silly blinky box.
The service information amounts to less than $3.00 a day.
He probably spends more than that on bottled water.

You know all about price and nothing about value.
Perhaps you should let the OP decide what is in his best interest before
you proclaim me to be 100% undeniably wrong.

> I maintain that most of the service that a car needs can typically be done
> at home. The scan tool to facilitate the work will run to about $150.

You accept my challenge then? Late model enhanced EVAP system, diagnose
one with the three listed codes, all testing must be done with YOUR $150
scan tool. No jumpers to solenoids, no backprobing any sensors for a
voltage reading.
Come on, you can do it. it's a big fat newsgroup, plenty of space, no
need to worry that actual technical information will drown out the
political talk.
From: Tegger on 27 Dec 2009 14:39
aarcuda69062 <nonelson(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:nonelson-E0FD03.17095724122009(a)news.eternal-september.org:

> In article <Xns9CEA9C2EC2259tegger(a)208.90.168.18>,
> Tegger <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote:
>

>>
>>
>>
>> That damn well sucks, I say.
>
> Why does it suck?
> The knowledge and equipment are not restricted, any limitations are
> self imposed.
>
>> Seems like pretty much all the home grease monkey can do is buy a
>> quality vehicle, and then maintain it by-the-book or better,
>> preferably with OEM parts and materials.
>
> If that is all one aspires to be...



"Self imposed"? "Aspires to be"? I think you're being a bit unfair.

Everyone aspires to something. If you're in a trade, you probably aspire to
be the best you can be in that trade. I know I do in mine. Unfortunately,
that means I need to make certain compromises to make sure my time and
money are expended on what puts food on my table.

My wife and my boss (and my customers) would find it questionable indeed if
I spent thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of training on something
that had nothing to do with my nearly 30-year-old career, and which I might
get the opportunity to use once a year, if that.

So, for the average home grease monkey, OBD-II's complexity sucks.


--
Tegger

From: aarcuda69062 on 28 Dec 2009 09:42
In article <Xns9CEE950F064C9tegger(a)208.90.168.18>,
Tegger <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote:

> aarcuda69062 <nonelson(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote in
> news:nonelson-E0FD03.17095724122009(a)news.eternal-september.org:
>
> > In article <Xns9CEA9C2EC2259tegger(a)208.90.168.18>,
> > Tegger <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote:
> >
>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> That damn well sucks, I say.
> >
> > Why does it suck?
> > The knowledge and equipment are not restricted, any limitations are
> > self imposed.
> >
> >> Seems like pretty much all the home grease monkey can do is buy a
> >> quality vehicle, and then maintain it by-the-book or better,
> >> preferably with OEM parts and materials.
> >
> > If that is all one aspires to be...
>
>
>
> "Self imposed"? "Aspires to be"? I think you're being a bit unfair.

Just calling it as I see it.

> Everyone aspires to something.

Like a home grease monkey?

> If you're in a trade, you probably aspire to
> be the best you can be in that trade.

"The best" is an unrealistic goal.

> I know I do in mine. Unfortunately,
> that means I need to make certain compromises to make sure my time and
> money are expended on what puts food on my table.

And that is unfair how?

> My wife and my boss (and my customers) would find it questionable indeed if
> I spent thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of training on something
> that had nothing to do with my nearly 30-year-old career, and which I might
> get the opportunity to use once a year, if that.

So all you need then is a cheaper hobby.

> So, for the average home grease monkey, OBD-II's complexity sucks.

Again, self imposed. No one has to be a home grease monkey and OBD II
has nothing to do with routine service and maintenance.

You can still change the oil yourself, you can still rotate the tires
yourself, you can still slap a set of brake pads on by yourself, you can
still hang a pine scented air freshener from the mirror yourself,
headlamp burned out, no OBD II protocol on those either.

If you want to get deeper than that, you are going to need some
equipment and some knowledge, now if you think that half assed equipment
and minimal knowledge is going to pass muster, I will tell you based
upon 40 years in the trade, it's a colossal waste. The same universal
truth that applies to welders and air compressors now applies to
diagnostics.
From: Tegger on 28 Dec 2009 10:32
aarcuda69062 <nonelson(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:nonelson-9222C8.08425428122009(a)nothing.attdns.com:

> In article <Xns9CEE950F064C9tegger(a)208.90.168.18>,
> Tegger <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote:
>

>
>> So, for the average home grease monkey, OBD-II's complexity sucks.
>
> Again, self imposed. No one has to be a home grease monkey and OBD II
> has nothing to do with routine service and maintenance.


Very true.

Our '99 Tercel has OBD-II, but nothing's ever gone wrong with it that
required OBD-II diagnostics. This means that in the 6-years or so we've
have the car, I've required OBD-II knowledge exactly zero times.

And our other car predates OBD-II.



>
> You can still change the oil yourself, you can still rotate the tires
> yourself, you can still slap a set of brake pads on by yourself, you
> can still hang a pine scented air freshener from the mirror yourself,
> headlamp burned out, no OBD II protocol on those either.



Absolutely true. And I do all those things and more (except for the
"Car Freshner").

I do 99% of my own work on both cars. The stuff I don't do is the sort that
requires facilities and equipment I haven't got and do not wish to spend
the money on (such as a tire-mounting equipment, a hoist, or a garage).



>
> If you want to get deeper than that, you are going to need some
> equipment and some knowledge, now if you think that half assed
> equipment and minimal knowledge is going to pass muster, I will tell
> you based upon 40 years in the trade, it's a colossal waste.


That has been my whole point all along.

I stick to what makes sense for me with the time and money I have available
for such things. I therefore intend to leave any required OBD-II
diagnostics to a professional in order to avoid "colossal waste".



--
Tegger

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