Toyota issued at least 3 Drive-by-Wires TSBs earlier for 2002-03 Camrys
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From: Wayne on 30 Nov 2009 19:10 "Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2(a)lycos,com> wrote in message news:4b13ea12$0$7186$ce5e7886(a)news-radius.ptd.net... > WHAT, you were kidding, when you wrote, " When pushing down hard, I popped > the end off the cable, and the cable was spring loaded to FULL throttle." > right? > > - Nope. A 69 vette being driven from the show room floor to my home. There was a cheap-assed plastic ball on the end of the cable, with a pair of fingers from the pedal mechanism hooked under the ball. A quite thrilling ride trying to get the engine stopped. > "Wayne" <mygarbagecan(a)verizon.net> wrote in message > news:heuua5$9m6$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >> >> "Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2(a)lycos,com> wrote in message >> news:4b11dc50$0$14195$ce5e7886(a)news-radius.ptd.net... >>> The question should be it seems, what new vehicle on the market today >>> does NOT use FBW technology? >>> >>> "in2dadark" <in2dadark(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message >>> news:28032db1-874e-48df-8f34-dfc51f6997cb(a)r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com... >>> On Nov 28, 10:58 am, Vic Smith <thismailautodele...(a)comcast.net> >>> wrote: >>>> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 09:17:33 -0600, Don Stauffer >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> <stauf...(a)usfamily.net> wrote: >>>> >john wrote: >>>> >> This is getting interesting. There were engine surge problems from >>>> >> the >>>> >> beginning of drive-by-wires that Toyota issued TSBs to fix. That was >>>> >> unexpected engine surges between 38-42 MPH on light throttle input: >>>> >>>> >> "Although Toyota says it knows of no electronic defects that would >>>> >> cause a vehicle to surge out of control, it has issued at least >>>> >> three >>>> >> technical service bulletins to its dealers warning of problems with >>>> >> the new electronic throttles in the 2002 and 2003 Camry. >>>> >>>> >I wonder if they consider software an electronic defect. If the >>>> >computer >>>> >operating system allows multi-tasking, and if they use a lot of >>>> >conditional branching, it is possible to write software that cannot be >>>> >deterministically verified, only statistically. Aircraft flight >>>> >control >>>> >software has developed deterministic rules for software. I wonder >>>> >which >>>> >way the car computers are. I'll bet too that the car computers are not >>>> >redundant. Military aircraft are usually triple redundant, commercial >>>> >stuff quad redundant. Expensive. >>>> >>>> >I have a Prius so this is not just idle curiosity with me. >>>> >>>> The whole idea is a loser to me. Mechanical linkages are well proven. >>>> What about short circuits, bad tracings, etc? >>>> (I know squat about electronics - except they sometimes fail.) >>>> The programming part regarding safety is pretty much a no brainer, as >>>> somebody mentioned - touching the brake always says shut down the >>>> throttle. >>>> But even that is subject to switching pulses and microscopic pathways. >>>> I especially don't like the idea of the ignition switch being disabled >>>> or bypassed. >>>> To think that Murphy's law won't kill somebody is pretty arrogant. >>>> KISS is always the best option where safety is concerned. >>>> A TPS is perfectly adequate to tell the CPU what the foot is doing. >>>> The foot should be in total control. >>>> Putting this electronic junk in to avoid floorpan holes and some >>>> linkage is no different than saving 20 cents per car on that Pinto >>>> gas tank design if people end up dead. >>>> Really sucks when Beta testing is being done at the risk of lives. >>>> Haven't been following this closely, so I may have something wrong. >>>> But I'll be sure to look for a mechanical throttle on my next car. >>>> If that's not available, I better be able to shut down with a >>>> key/switch. Otherwise I'll stick with older cars. >>>> >>>> --Vic- Hide quoted text - >>>> >>>> - Show quoted text - >>> >>> Not crazy about DBW either. They seem to be installing 'more' hazards >>> in cars instead of eliminating them. I wonder if the Kia forte is DBW.. >>> >> The mechanical linkages also have problems. On one car, I had a rubber >> plug come loose in the engine compartment, and wedge into the accelerator >> linkage. On another car, the cable travel stopped before the accelerator >> bottomed out. When pushing down hard, I popped the end off the cable, >> and the cable was spring loaded to full throttle. YMMV. >> > >
From: Mike Hunter on 30 Nov 2009 19:34 The CABLE was spring loaded to FULL throttle???? If the cable was torn loose from the carburetor, as you say, how could it motivate the throttle plate at all let alone to full open, when the throttle plate is weighted to close?? "Wayne" <mygarbagecan(a)verizon.net> wrote in message news:hf1muk$pgf$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... > > "Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2(a)lycos,com> wrote in message > news:4b13ea12$0$7186$ce5e7886(a)news-radius.ptd.net... >> WHAT, you were kidding, when you wrote, " When pushing down hard, I >> popped the end off the cable, and the cable was spring loaded to FULL >> throttle." right? >> >> > - > Nope. A 69 vette being driven from the show room floor to my home. There > was a cheap-assed plastic ball on the end of the cable, with a pair of > fingers from the pedal mechanism hooked under the ball. A quite thrilling > ride trying to get the engine stopped. > >> "Wayne" <mygarbagecan(a)verizon.net> wrote in message >> news:heuua5$9m6$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >>> >>> "Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2(a)lycos,com> wrote in message >>> news:4b11dc50$0$14195$ce5e7886(a)news-radius.ptd.net... >>>> The question should be it seems, what new vehicle on the market today >>>> does NOT use FBW technology? >>>> >>>> "in2dadark" <in2dadark(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message >>>> news:28032db1-874e-48df-8f34-dfc51f6997cb(a)r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com... >>>> On Nov 28, 10:58 am, Vic Smith <thismailautodele...(a)comcast.net> >>>> wrote: >>>>> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 09:17:33 -0600, Don Stauffer >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <stauf...(a)usfamily.net> wrote: >>>>> >john wrote: >>>>> >> This is getting interesting. There were engine surge problems from >>>>> >> the >>>>> >> beginning of drive-by-wires that Toyota issued TSBs to fix. That >>>>> >> was >>>>> >> unexpected engine surges between 38-42 MPH on light throttle input: >>>>> >>>>> >> "Although Toyota says it knows of no electronic defects that would >>>>> >> cause a vehicle to surge out of control, it has issued at least >>>>> >> three >>>>> >> technical service bulletins to its dealers warning of problems with >>>>> >> the new electronic throttles in the 2002 and 2003 Camry. >>>>> >>>>> >I wonder if they consider software an electronic defect. If the >>>>> >computer >>>>> >operating system allows multi-tasking, and if they use a lot of >>>>> >conditional branching, it is possible to write software that cannot >>>>> >be >>>>> >deterministically verified, only statistically. Aircraft flight >>>>> >control >>>>> >software has developed deterministic rules for software. I wonder >>>>> >which >>>>> >way the car computers are. I'll bet too that the car computers are >>>>> >not >>>>> >redundant. Military aircraft are usually triple redundant, commercial >>>>> >stuff quad redundant. Expensive. >>>>> >>>>> >I have a Prius so this is not just idle curiosity with me. >>>>> >>>>> The whole idea is a loser to me. Mechanical linkages are well proven. >>>>> What about short circuits, bad tracings, etc? >>>>> (I know squat about electronics - except they sometimes fail.) >>>>> The programming part regarding safety is pretty much a no brainer, as >>>>> somebody mentioned - touching the brake always says shut down the >>>>> throttle. >>>>> But even that is subject to switching pulses and microscopic pathways. >>>>> I especially don't like the idea of the ignition switch being disabled >>>>> or bypassed. >>>>> To think that Murphy's law won't kill somebody is pretty arrogant. >>>>> KISS is always the best option where safety is concerned. >>>>> A TPS is perfectly adequate to tell the CPU what the foot is doing. >>>>> The foot should be in total control. >>>>> Putting this electronic junk in to avoid floorpan holes and some >>>>> linkage is no different than saving 20 cents per car on that Pinto >>>>> gas tank design if people end up dead. >>>>> Really sucks when Beta testing is being done at the risk of lives. >>>>> Haven't been following this closely, so I may have something wrong. >>>>> But I'll be sure to look for a mechanical throttle on my next car. >>>>> If that's not available, I better be able to shut down with a >>>>> key/switch. Otherwise I'll stick with older cars. >>>>> >>>>> --Vic- Hide quoted text - >>>>> >>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>> >>>> Not crazy about DBW either. They seem to be installing 'more' hazards >>>> in cars instead of eliminating them. I wonder if the Kia forte is DBW.. >>>> >>> The mechanical linkages also have problems. On one car, I had a rubber >>> plug come loose in the engine compartment, and wedge into the >>> accelerator linkage. On another car, the cable travel stopped before >>> the accelerator bottomed out. When pushing down hard, I popped the end >>> off the cable, and the cable was spring loaded to full throttle. YMMV. >>> >> >> > >
From: someone on 30 Nov 2009 23:57
In article <hf0eaf$5mb$1(a)news.eternal-september.org>, "C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)mindspring.com> wrote: > >"Vic Smith" <thismailautodeleted(a)comcast.net> wrote in message >news:64h2h591lc7ildra3k7bmsvrumn21fkip6(a)4ax.com... > >> The whole idea is a loser to me. Mechanical linkages are well >> proven. > >In my life I've only had two times when a throttle stuck open, in both >cases it was for vehicles with well proven mechanical linkages. > >Ed > > it's an easy to get situation on poorly maintained motorcycles. since the ignition switxhes can be in awkward places, you learn to gear change a flareout to shut off. or you add a simple kill switch. kill switches on cars are a good idea also good for anti theft. it ain't rocket science either. |