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From: Clive on 26 Feb 2010 10:42
In message <iLqdnb8qF_bUQhrWnZ2dnUVZ_qSdnZ2d(a)giganews.com>, dr_jeff
<utz(a)msu.edu> writes
>Another option is to build in reporting on vehicles' performance that
>can go to the car maker and NHSTA. When there is an unexpected
>condition, the info automatically get sent to the car maker and NHSTA.
>Software companies have been doing this for at least 15 years. GM does
>it already with engine problems. There's no reason why this can't be
>done after a crash or when there is an unusual brakign condition.
Whilst I might agree with you, a driver with his/her foot wrongly on the
accelerator won't throw up a fault because the electronics think that is
what is required of the driver.
--
Clive

From: dr_jeff on 26 Feb 2010 11:01
Clive wrote:
> In message <iLqdnb8qF_bUQhrWnZ2dnUVZ_qSdnZ2d(a)giganews.com>, dr_jeff
> <utz(a)msu.edu> writes
>> Another option is to build in reporting on vehicles' performance that
>> can go to the car maker and NHSTA. When there is an unexpected
>> condition, the info automatically get sent to the car maker and NHSTA.
>> Software companies have been doing this for at least 15 years. GM does
>> it already with engine problems. There's no reason why this can't be
>> done after a crash or when there is an unusual brakign condition.
> Whilst I might agree with you, a driver with his/her foot wrongly on the
> accelerator won't throw up a fault because the electronics think that is
> what is required of the driver.

Another condition can be a sudden stop, like that caused by a car
hitting a tree at a high speed with the foot on the accelerator, not the
brake.
From: jg9100 on 26 Feb 2010 13:52
On Feb 25, 10:31 pm, "C. E. White" <cewhite3rem...(a)mindspring.com>
wrote:
> Toyota gets more runaway complaints than rivals, study says
> Neil Roland
> Automotive News -- February 25, 2010 - 2:35 pm ET
>
> WASHINGTON -- Toyota Motor Corp. vehicles have been the focus of more
> unintended acceleration complaints in the United States than any other major
> automaker in the past five years, a new study shows.
>
> Toyota was the target of 532 consumer complaints involving 2005 model year
> vehicles and later, according to National Highway Traffic Safety
> Administration data tallied by Edmunds.com. That's 57 percent more than the
> 339 complaints involving vehicles from Ford Motor Co., which was No. 2.
>
> The findings challenge Toyota's contention that it has been unfairly singled
> out on an issue that affects the entire industry. Toyota executives have
> trumpeted other Edmunds.com studies to demonstrate that its overall safety
> record is superior to most rivals.
>
> The Edmunds.com study tracked unintended acceleration complaints received by
> NHTSA through Sept. 30, 2009. That was the day Toyota, responding to a fatal
> accident in California a month earlier, announced plans to recall 3.8
> million U.S. Toyota and Lexus models to fix floor mats that may snag gas
> pedals.
>
> On a complaints-per-sale basis, Toyota remained the leader by almost the
> same margin. It had 4.81 complaints per 100,000 U.S. vehicles sold -- 54
> percent more than Ford's 3.12. Chrysler (1.72), Honda (1.26), Nissan (1.07)
> and GM (0.81) followed, Edmunds.com said.
>
> Congressional and federal investigations of Toyota's safety record are
> focused on unintended acceleration. Such incidents have been linked to at
> least five U.S. deaths in Toyota vehicles, with 29 other fatality reports
> being examined by NHTSA.
>
> Consumers have filed more than 2,500 unintended acceleration complaints to
> Toyota over the past decade, the Safety Research & Strategies consulting
> firm has said.
>
> Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons responded to the Edmunds.com tally by saying
> unintended acceleration can be caused by many factors and that nearly all
> major automakers have been the focus of complaints.
>
> Toyota Division chief Bob Carter said at the National Automobile Dealers
> Association convention this month that Edmunds.com found 16 automakers
> ranked worse than Toyota in terms of general complaints per vehicle sold
> from 2001 through Feb. 3, 2010.
>
> Read more:http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100225/OEM/10022...

The bottom line here is Toyota most likely has a software design issue
with their throttle control. They will deny that to the bone, because
they can't fix it. It is too small of sample size to get an accurate
description of the problem. So they choose to stonewall everyone with
carpet and pedal fixes, hoping they can show some positive result.
It's too bad for their customers that they can't implement the brake
pedal override so the few cars that do this, the owner could get
control back. I guess that introducing a a software fix would take too
much testing and could risk introducing other issues. Otherwise they
could just flash the engine controller and be done with it. The older
engine controller may not have enough memory to do this anyway so they
may have to replace them. What a mess.
They sound a lot like GM.
From: C. E. White on 26 Feb 2010 19:33

"jim beam" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message
news:jo6dnTjXGtg_-xrWnZ2dnUVZ_qhi4p2d(a)speakeasy.net...
> On 02/25/2010 09:46 PM, C. E. White wrote:
>> Actual Edmunds article is at:
>>
>> http://www.edmunds.com/help/about/press/161706/article.html
>>
>> "Toyota Motor Corporation models - Toyota Camry (290 complaints), Toyota
>> Tacoma (184 complaints) and Lexus ES 350 (100 complaints) - rank 1, 2
>> and 3, respectively, for most complaints by model, in Edmunds.com's
>> analysis, which ranks the vehicles on the raw number of complaints, not
>> on a sales- weighted basis.
>> "Nine of the top 12 models with the most complaints of unintended
>> acceleration are made by Toyota. In addition to the Camry, Tacoma and ES
>> 350, the other Toyota models among the top dozen are: Toyota Prius, No.
>> 5 with 85 complaints; Toyota Avalon, No. 6 with 79 complaints; Toyota
>> Tundra, No. 7 with 66 complaints; Toyota Corolla, No. 8 with 55
>> complaints; Toyota Highlander, No. 11 with 42 complaints; and Toyota
>> RAV4, No. 12 with 41 complaints.
>>
>> T"he top 12 list is rounded out by two Fords: Ford F-150 in the No. 4
>> position with 86 complaints and Ford Mustang, which was No. 9 with 53
>> complaints. Chrysler's Jeep Grand Cherokee was No. 10 with 46 complaints"
>>
>> Ed
>>
>
> complaint != substantiated problem ed. of course, as a paid shill, such a
> fact might be inconvenient to your campaign, but it's the truth
> nevertheless.

Hundreds of complaint about a particualr concern deserves a reasonable
investigation. Over the past ten years Toyota has more uninitended
acceleration complinats that the next 5 largest automakers combined. You
think that should be ignored?

Ed

From: C. E. White on 26 Feb 2010 19:31

"jim beam" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message
news:jo6dnTnXGtje-xrWnZ2dnUVZ_qidnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net...

> 12 in /how/ many million driver miles?

12? There are hundreds (thousands?) of complaints of unintended
acceleration over the last 10 years. Did you read any of the relevant
articles? See http://www.edmunds.com/help/about/press/161706/article.html .

>> http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2010/02/timeline-of-toyota-nhtsa-acceleration-investigations-sua.html
>
> you want to read my blog ed?

Is it any more coherent that the ranting you post here?

Ed

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