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From: Roland Franzius on 13 Apr 2010 11:28
dsarvas(a)yahoo.com schrieb:
> Since I bought my "07 Camry, when I push the recirc button to prevent
> outside air from flowing into the cabin, it will go off after awhile
> and outside air starts to come through. I took it in while it was
> under warranty but the first time they told me they didn't have anyone
> at the Toyota agency that day who could work on electronics. I took
> it back again and they couldn't figure out the source of the problem.
> It's an intermittent problem so I understand the difficulty for them
> to track it down, but since they couldn't figure it out, I was
> surprised they didn't offer to replace the unit since the car was
> under warranty. My own fault for not pushing it. I just took the car
> in to have a couple recall items fixed and asked that they try again,
> but they couldn't identify the source of the problem. Instead, they
> recommend I go on a road test with them. But the problem may not
> occur for 25, or 50 or who knows how many miles. And even if it did,
> what would that tell them? I think they just need confirmation it
> really does occur. I can understand that they may not just simply
> trust my word so I'm wondering if anyone else out there has the same
> problem. Perhaps it goes on far more often than anyone knows,
> although if that was the case I would assume they would have had the
> answer and a solution in my case.


The design of recirculation is avoidance of pollution from outside eg in
a tunnel or at a stop. Since the inner of the car is hermetically sealed
the CO2 inside is low enough for four persons for at most a quarter of
hour to avoid selfintoxication. So for saving your life the automatic
stops and gives you fresh oxygen after five minutes. Should be written
about in the instruction booklet.

--

Roland Franzius
From: Ray O on 14 Apr 2010 11:52

"Damaeus" <no-mail(a)damaeus.earthlink.invalid> wrote in message
news:8cibs5hkaemtainj2dt53bq3g3eqnrgkul(a)4ax.com...
> In news:alt.autos.toyota.camry, Roland Franzius <roland.franzius(a)uos.de>
> posted on Tue, 13 Apr 2010 17:28:10 +0200 the following:
>
>> The design of recirculation is avoidance of pollution from outside eg in
>> a tunnel or at a stop. Since the inner of the car is hermetically
>> sealed the CO2 inside is low enough for four persons for at most a
>> quarter of hour to avoid selfintoxication. So for saving your life the
>> automatic stops and gives you fresh oxygen after five minutes. Should
>> be written about in the instruction booklet.
>
> Where did you read that the Camry is hermetically sealed? I certainly beg
> to differ. When I'm driving along (2007 Camry) and see smoke blowing
> across the road from someone's leaf burning, I immediately switch to
> recirculate. There have even been times when I was already on recirculate
> before ever seeing the smoke. In either type of instance, I would always
> smell the smoke when driving through it. If the car was hermetically
> sealed, I wouldn't be able to smell anything that's outside the car.
> Granted, I can tell the difference between recirculate and normal with
> regard to the swiftness of invading odors, but recirculate is definitely
> not airtight. And the so-called cabin filter is a joke. It doesn't
> filter anything. If I get behind someone driving a diesel, the filter
> does nothing to stop the offending odor. I'm often left gagging for fresh
> air as I try to wonder if I'm going to be poisoned before I can flush the
> cabin with cleaner air than what was farted out of the tailpipes in front
> of me.
>
> Damaeus
> --

Most vehicles are not hermetically sealed. If they were, you'd feel your
ears pop every time you sat inside and closed the door, and all of the
windows would have to be inoperable to form a hermetic seal.

The cabin filter is a fiber filter and is designed to filter dust and
debris, not odors. I have seen some aftermarket filters that have charcoal
to absorb some odors. Even a charcoal filter is not 100% effective because
the air would have to linger long enough for the charcoal to absorb the
odors, and vehicle movement and the HVAC fan moves the air past the filter
too quickly.

You can reduce the intake of diesel fumes into the cabin by staying several
car lengths behind the source of the diesel fumes so that the exhaust from
the vehicle in front of you does not immediately hit the base of your
windshield, where the vehicle's cabin air intake is located. Allowing the
fumes to dissipate a little before they reach the cabin air intake helps.

Some Lexus models have some kind of sensor for the cabin air intake system
that automatically switches the system to recirc mode when it starts to suck
in fumes, and the cabin air filter uses charcoal to absorb some of the odor.
The downside to the system is that the filters are something like $75 to
replace.

--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)


From: Roland Franzius on 15 Apr 2010 10:37
Ray O schrieb:
> "Damaeus" <no-mail(a)damaeus.earthlink.invalid> wrote in message
> news:8cibs5hkaemtainj2dt53bq3g3eqnrgkul(a)4ax.com...
>> In news:alt.autos.toyota.camry, Roland Franzius <roland.franzius(a)uos.de>
>> posted on Tue, 13 Apr 2010 17:28:10 +0200 the following:
>>
>>> The design of recirculation is avoidance of pollution from outside eg in
>>> a tunnel or at a stop. Since the inner of the car is hermetically
>>> sealed the CO2 inside is low enough for four persons for at most a
>>> quarter of hour to avoid selfintoxication. So for saving your life the
>>> automatic stops and gives you fresh oxygen after five minutes. Should
>>> be written about in the instruction booklet.
>> Where did you read that the Camry is hermetically sealed? I certainly beg
>> to differ. When I'm driving along (2007 Camry) and see smoke blowing
>> across the road from someone's leaf burning, I immediately switch to
>> recirculate. There have even been times when I was already on recirculate
>> before ever seeing the smoke. In either type of instance, I would always
>> smell the smoke when driving through it. If the car was hermetically
>> sealed, I wouldn't be able to smell anything that's outside the car.
>> Granted, I can tell the difference between recirculate and normal with
>> regard to the swiftness of invading odors, but recirculate is definitely
>> not airtight. And the so-called cabin filter is a joke. It doesn't
>> filter anything. If I get behind someone driving a diesel, the filter
>> does nothing to stop the offending odor. I'm often left gagging for fresh
>> air as I try to wonder if I'm going to be poisoned before I can flush the
>> cabin with cleaner air than what was farted out of the tailpipes in front
>> of me.
>>
>> Damaeus
>> --
>
> Most vehicles are not hermetically sealed. If they were, you'd feel your
> ears pop every time you sat inside and closed the door, and all of the
> windows would have to be inoperable to form a hermetic seal.
>
> The cabin filter is a fiber filter and is designed to filter dust and
> debris, not odors. I have seen some aftermarket filters that have charcoal
> to absorb some odors. Even a charcoal filter is not 100% effective because
> the air would have to linger long enough for the charcoal to absorb the
> odors, and vehicle movement and the HVAC fan moves the air past the filter
> too quickly.
>
> You can reduce the intake of diesel fumes into the cabin by staying several
> car lengths behind the source of the diesel fumes so that the exhaust from
> the vehicle in front of you does not immediately hit the base of your
> windshield, where the vehicle's cabin air intake is located. Allowing the
> fumes to dissipate a little before they reach the cabin air intake helps.
>
> Some Lexus models have some kind of sensor for the cabin air intake system
> that automatically switches the system to recirc mode when it starts to suck
> in fumes, and the cabin air filter uses charcoal to absorb some of the odor.
> The downside to the system is that the filters are something like $75 to
> replace.

For the purpose of air exchange, cars have an controllable intake and an
outlet, mostly open or often sealed loosely with a flap cover against
noise.

If you close the intake and all windows are shut you dont get rid of the
the CO2 produced by passengers because the one open outlet makes no air
flow.

The car has an air volume around a cubic meter. With each breath each
person pollutes perhaps 1/1000 of it. After 500 breaths ore some minutes
you have half of the concentration of CO2 in the outgoing air from the
lungs.

Now headache starts because of a to low oxygen concentration in your
blood. It cant get rid of CO2 because the external CO2 density is to
high (5% is deadly).

From these rough figures you may calculate the maximal lifetime for
people transported in closed standard containers.

--

Roland Franzius
From: dsi1 on 15 Apr 2010 17:52
On 4/14/2010 5:52 AM, Ray O wrote:
>
> Some Lexus models have some kind of sensor for the cabin air intake system
> that automatically switches the system to recirc mode when it starts to suck
> in fumes, and the cabin air filter uses charcoal to absorb some of the odor.
> The downside to the system is that the filters are something like $75 to
> replace.
>

My '06 Sonata has this feature as part of the automatic AC system.
Hopefully, the Hyundai filter will be cheaper than a Lexus filter. In a
perfect world, it should be about $25 installed. :-)
From: Ray O on 16 Apr 2010 13:03

"Damaeus" <no-mail(a)damaeus.earthlink.invalid> wrote in message
news:ftkgs598pr3qrhajdflp3d274qcf33a295(a)4ax.com...
> In news:alt.autos.toyota.camry, "Ray O"
> <rokigawa(a)NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> posted on Wed, 14 Apr 2010 10:52:57
> -0500 the following:
>
>> Most vehicles are not hermetically sealed. If they were, you'd feel
>> your ears pop every time you sat inside and closed the door, and all of
>> the windows would have to be inoperable to form a hermetic seal.
>
> Well, yeah. If I roll the windows up at highway speeds, I put the air
> conditioner on recirculate first or my ears will feel the pressure hit
> them. Mine is a Camry LE. My friend's/roommate's is a Camry SE. If I
> don't crack the windows before closing the doors in his car, it hurts my
> ears; I don't get that effect in my car.
>

Camrys are sealed fairly well, but they are not hermetically sealed. The
purpose of the gaskets on the doors is to reduce wind noise.

The smaller the cabin, the greater the ear popping effect.

>> The cabin filter is a fiber filter and is designed to filter dust and
>> debris, not odors.
>
> It filters out rat nests and hair, too. One got into mine and built a
> nest right up against the cabin filter. I'm just glad he didn't stay in
> there and die. I'm also glad bits of his nest and poo poo pellets didn't
> come flying through the vents and into my face.

I've seen stuff come out of many customers' vents due to rodent nests - not
very pleasant.
I've heard of rodent offspring getting chewed up by the heater fan, which
sprays the stuff all over the inside of the fan housing, making for a pretty
smelly system.

>
>> I have seen some aftermarket filters that have charcoal to absorb some
>> odors. Even a charcoal filter is not 100% effective because the air
>> would have to linger long enough for the charcoal to absorb the odors,
>> and vehicle movement and the HVAC fan moves the air past the filter too
>> quickly.
>>
>> You can reduce the intake of diesel fumes into the cabin by staying
>> several car lengths behind the source of the diesel fumes so that the
>> exhaust from the vehicle in front of you does not immediately hit the
>> base of your windshield, where the vehicle's cabin air intake is
>> located.
>
> I can hear the horns blowing at me now as I do that in city traffic at a
> red light. That's what I was envisioning. As for highways, I leave more
> than just "six car lengths per ten miles an hour of speed" when I'm behind
> anyone unless I want to pass them.

I prefer not to travel behind big trucks and buses because the dual rear
wheels tend to kick up some pretty big pieces of road debris, so I just hang
back and let people pass me or I pass the truck. A side benefit is not
having to feal with the fumes.

>
>> Some Lexus models have some kind of sensor for the cabin air intake
>> system that automatically switches the system to recirc mode when it
>> starts to suck in fumes, and the cabin air filter uses charcoal to
>> absorb some of the odor. The downside to the system is that the filters
>> are something like $75 to replace.
>
> They want $50 to replace the Toyota ones unless you do it yourself. I
> wonder if the carbon filter one will fit a Toyota if it's made for a Lexus
> version of a Camry. I don't know what the Lexus version is called.
>
> Damaeus

I checked to see if Toyota dealers stocked the cabin filters for a 2001
Lexus LS, but they did not. I never compared the cabin filter from the
Lexus with one from a Toyota, and I haven't found any aftermarket cabin
filters at auto parts stores yet so I just stick with the cabin filters from
the Lexus dealership. I think my 2004 LS has 6 interior filters - front
cabin filter with charcoal, rear cabin filter with charcoal, and a small
filter for each ventilated seat, which appears to be just a paper/fiber
filter.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)


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