ON Topic: 88 Supra overheating...
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From: bugalugs on 5 Jun 2010 00:08 On 5/06/2010 10:23 a.m., Hachiroku ハチロク wrote: > On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 22:52:38 -0500, Ray O wrote: > >> >> "Hachiroku ????"<Trueno(a)e86.GTS> wrote in message >> news:dZFNn.21379$7d5.12341(a)newsfe17.iad... >>> On Wed, 02 Jun 2010 23:04:28 -0500, Ray O wrote: >>> >>> >>>> "Hachiroku ????"<Trueno(a)e86.GTS> wrote in message >>>> news:JAFNn.35974$h57.25681(a)newsfe22.iad... >>>>> I know there are techs in all three groups, hence the cross posting.... >>>>> >>>>> The other day, the day it got clobbered by the storm, it was 96 >>>>> degrees in Keene NH. That's ~35 miles from home. Since it was nice I >>>>> decided to take the roof off the Supra and use it for my daily rounds. >>>>> >>>>> Everything was fine until about mile 27, and then I noticed the temp >>>>> climbing. By the time I got to my first stop it was almost to the red. >>>>> >>>>> It behaved the rest of the time in Keene, and then, about 27 miles >>>>> later it was heating up again. >>>>> >>>>> I opened the radiator and it was down about a quart, but the bottle >>>>> was on "low". I filled the radiator and let it sit for a couple rainy >>>>> days. >>>>> >>>>> Today was bright and sunny and about 86 degrees, so, since the roof >>>>> doesn't *quite* fit as well after making like a kite it sits in the >>>>> trunk, and again the ~35 mile trip to Keene. 27 miles up the >>>>> road...almost in the red again. When I got to where I pick up my parts >>>>> I let it cool and then opened the hood, and in front of the radiator >>>>> the shroud attached to the bottom of the car was wet, and the overflow >>>>> bottle was FULL. Spring a leak? I patched one split in the plastic >>>>> top a couple years ago, and it had sprung again. When I filled it I >>>>> did not add any to the bottle. >>>>> >>>>> It ran OK for the few stops I had, then back home...27 miles... >>>>> >>>>> When I got home I left the heat on and would start it, ramp the non >>>>> eletric fan up and shut it down. After about 1/2 an hour letting it >>>>> sit, I went out and gingerly removed the radiator cap. The cap was >>>>> COOL! Again... down about a quart in the readiator, but this time the >>>>> bottle was full. >>>>> >>>>> I am guessing the radiator is plugged up. It is the original 22 year >>>>> old radiator, so I ordered a new one. From Toyota? HAH! Even though >>>>> they last +20 years, they are also FOUR HUNDRED AND EIGHTY SEVEN >>>>> DOLLARS!!! >>>>> >>>>> SPI, $130. It may only last seven years, but then, how much longer >>>>> will the car last? (Although it is in pretty good shape...) >>>>> >>>>> BTW, I had the SAME THING happen to my '89 Subaru GL coupe, and after >>>>> replacing the radiator I don't even need the fan, the thing runs so >>>>> cool. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Replace the cap while you're at it. >>> >>> I think it comes with one. >>> >>> I was thinking about that, but the cap is openeing up and letting the >>> coolant flow into the bottle. >>> >>> The coolant I saw in the shroud was the stuff that was being purged out >>> of the bottle... >>> >>> I think I might actually get a real Toyota cap, if it fits. They're only >>> $11... >>> >>> >> A bad cap will open too soon so the cooling system doesn't maintain >> pressure, and if the cooling system doesn't maintain pressure, the boiling >> temp goes down, more coolant gets pushed out, air gets in, and temps rise. >> >> A blown head gasket can allow combustion gases into the coolant, which >> pushes coolant out, and temps rise. >> >> Look for oil in the coolant, either in the radiator or a milkshake >> appearance in the oil. Either symptom can indicate a BHG. If the coolant >> and oil are pristine, then you have a leak somewhere in the cooling system >> - radiator, hoses, cap, or heater core. >> >> While you're poking around make sure coolant isn't weeping or leaking from >> the timing cover, a sign of a leaking water pump. > > The coolant in the bottle looked OK. The coolant in the > radiator...couldn't be seen. It must have blown a lot of it out. Last time > it took a quart. > > I have a new SPI radiator (I know, I know, but it was $123 compared to > $487!) so I'll remove the rad, drain and flush the cooling system, and > then replace and refill, and cross my fingers... > > And, of course, after being nice yesterday and today, it's going to rain > all weekend, and then be really nice for the next four days after... > Haven't you heard that old question: What do you get after two days of rain? Monday. > BTW, I haven't checked the oil yet. I'll do that tomorrow. > > -- The problem with modern and new stuff is that we don't know how good it's going to be until it's old and it's still going...
From: jim beam on 5 Jun 2010 10:05 On 06/04/2010 05:56 PM, clare(a)snyder.on.ca wrote: > On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 20:28:54 -0700, jim beam<me(a)privacy.net> wrote: > > >> >> get one of those chemical leak test kits. the pH of the coolant changes >> if the gasket is leaking - provided you haven't masked it by changing >> the coolant too recently. > It's not the PH it is checking yes it is dude. the solution is classic bromothymol blue - starts blue, turns yellow if the gasket is failing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromothymol_blue [now you can reconsider paying $50 for a bottle of reagent that only really should be costing you a couple of bucks.] works because the CO₂ in combustion product [about 15%] bubbles through the coolant, dissolves and forms carbonic acid, and reduces the pH. "solutions of carbon dioxide in water" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbonic_acid > - so having changed the coolant 2 > weeks ago will have NO effect on the test. two weeks, true. but having changed it sooner can mask the problem, particularly in early stages where gas leakage can be slight. -- nomina rutrum rutrum
From: John on 5 Jun 2010 21:16 On 6/2/2010 11:46 PM, Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B wrote: > I know there are techs in all three groups, hence the cross posting.... > > The other day, the day it got clobbered by the storm, it was 96 degrees in > Keene NH. That's ~35 miles from home. Since it was nice I decided to take > the roof off the Supra and use it for my daily rounds. > > Everything was fine until about mile 27, and then I noticed the temp > climbing. By the time I got to my first stop it was almost to the red. > > It behaved the rest of the time in Keene, and then, about 27 miles later > it was heating up again. > > I opened the radiator and it was down about a quart, but the bottle was on > "low". I filled the radiator and let it sit for a couple rainy days. > > Today was bright and sunny and about 86 degrees, so, since the roof > doesn't *quite* fit as well after making like a kite it sits in the trunk, > and again the ~35 mile trip to Keene. 27 miles up the road...almost in the > red again. When I got to where I pick up my parts I let it cool and then > opened the hood, and in front of the radiator the shroud attached to the > bottom of the car was wet, and the overflow bottle was FULL. Spring a > leak? I patched one split in the plastic top a couple years ago, and it > had sprung again. When I filled it I did not add any to the bottle. > > It ran OK for the few stops I had, then back home...27 miles... > > When I got home I left the heat on and would start it, ramp the non > eletric fan up and shut it down. After about 1/2 an hour letting it sit, I > went out and gingerly removed the radiator cap. The cap was COOL! Again... > down about a quart in the readiator, but this time the bottle was full. > > I am guessing the radiator is plugged up. It is the original 22 year old > radiator, so I ordered a new one. From Toyota? HAH! Even though they last > +20 years, they are also FOUR HUNDRED AND EIGHTY SEVEN DOLLARS!!! > > SPI, $130. It may only last seven years, but then, how much longer will > the car last? (Although it is in pretty good shape...) > > BTW, I had the SAME THING happen to my '89 Subaru GL coupe, and after > replacing the radiator I don't even need the fan, the thing runs so cool. > > T-Stat? -- John
From: clare on 5 Jun 2010 23:01 On Fri, 04 Jun 2010 22:22:32 -0400, Hachiroku ???? <Trueno(a)e86.GTS> wrote: >On Fri, 04 Jun 2010 20:55:19 -0400, clare wrote: > >> On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 21:32:18 -0400, Hachiroku ???? <Trueno(a)e86.GTS> wrote: >> >>>On Fri, 04 Jun 2010 01:23:24 +0000, Tegger wrote: >>> >>>>> The coolant I saw in the shroud was the stuff that was being purged >>>>> out of the bottle... >>>> >>>> >>>> Either a bad rad-cap, or you've got a blown head gasket. >>> >>>DO NOT say this!!! We're talking a Supra here! Not that a 1986-1991 Supra >>>would *EVER* blow a head gasket!!! >>> >>>This is the one thing I'm praying it's not... >> >> If you overheated it , whatever the original cause, you are LIKELY now >> looking at another head gasket - and be VERY sure you have the head >> checked for warpage when it is off. They are a fantastic engine, on the >> whole - but not terribly forgiving of massive overheating. >>> > > >The sound you just heard was my bubble bursting... > >I have a new radiator. If the rain holds off this weekend I'll put it in >(it was needed anyway...) and then take it for a spin. It takes over 25 >miles for the engine to start to creep up in temp. > >Yeah, I think a new HG is in order...I'm hoping I can get through this >summer OK and do it over the winter. > If the head gasket is leaking and you value the engine AT ALL - DO NOT continue driving it. You WILL cause further damage. Ride your bicycle for a week - a head gasket replacement on even a 7MGE is only a good day's work for a decent do-it-yourselfer. Add a day for the machine shop to check (and possibly plane) the head and you should be able to do it over 3 days - working evenings. >NOT something I was looking forward to doing...I believe it was replaced >once, a year before I bought it in '04. > > > > >>>AFAIK, the head gasket has already been replaced and the bolts torqued to >>>the new spec. I'm praying REALLY hard... (Although it doesn't look like >>>that hard a job. I was already 2/3 of the way there when I replaced the >>>spark plugs...) >>> >>> >>>
From: clare on 5 Jun 2010 23:13
On Sat, 05 Jun 2010 07:05:42 -0700, jim beam <me(a)privacy.net> wrote: >On 06/04/2010 05:56 PM, clare(a)snyder.on.ca wrote: >> On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 20:28:54 -0700, jim beam<me(a)privacy.net> wrote: >> >> >>> >>> get one of those chemical leak test kits. the pH of the coolant changes >>> if the gasket is leaking - provided you haven't masked it by changing >>> the coolant too recently. >> It's not the PH it is checking > >yes it is dude. the solution is classic bromothymol blue - starts blue, >turns yellow if the gasket is failing. > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromothymol_blue > >[now you can reconsider paying $50 for a bottle of reagent that only >really should be costing you a couple of bucks.] > >works because the CO2 in combustion product [about 15%] bubbles through >the coolant, dissolves and forms carbonic acid, and reduces the pH. > >"solutions of carbon dioxide in water" >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbonic_acid > > >> - so having changed the coolant 2 >> weeks ago will have NO effect on the test. > >two weeks, true. but having changed it sooner can mask the problem, >particularly in early stages where gas leakage can be slight. Not the stuff I've used over the last 30 years. It was accurate even when the pH was way high. OK - I checket out your reference - it is NOT checking the pH of the coolant. It is detecting CO2 by bubbling air from the cooling system through the reagent (which you have correctly identified) and if the air contains CO2 it is absorbed in the water the reagent is disolved in, forming carbonic acid, and changing the colour of the fluid. From your reference- Bromothymol blue is mostly used in measuring substances that would have relatively low acidic or basic levels (near a neutral pH). It is often used in managing the pH of pools and fish tanks, and for measuring the presence of carbonic acid in a liquid. A common demonstration of BTB's pH indicator properties involves exhaling through a tube into a neutral solution of BTB. As carbon dioxide is absorbed from the breath into the solution, forming carbonic acid, the solution changes color from green to yellow. Thus, BTB is commonly used in middle school science classes to demonstrate that the more that muscles are used, the greater the CO2 output. From the instructios for the leak detector kit- To do the test, add the blue detector fluid to the (block-tester) plastic container according to the directions, and place it onto the radiator filler neck. The squeeze bulb is placed on top of the reservoir and squeezed repeatedly (Some block testers, have a tube that connects to a vacuum line instead of a squeeze bulb). Squeezing the bulb will draw air from the radiator through the test fluid. Block tester fluid is normally blue. Exhaust gases in the cooling system will change the color of the fluid to yellow, indicating a combustion leak. If the fluid remains blue, exhaust gases were not present during the test. The vehicle should be started and at operating temperature before performing the test. Vehicles with head gasket leaks may overheat, and purge hot water and steam out of the radiator. Perform this test, at your own risk, and do not do the test, unless you are experienced and are wearing clothing and equipment to protect you from burns, or injury. |